imaging help

[OuTLaWeD 110]

alright, so i've been debating something here and i wanted to get your opinions on it. some of you may know that i have a Hummer H2 that i've been slowly putting together for an "SQ" style build. now i have been thinking about doing 6.5's components active in the front doors with the tweeters being in the factory A pillars pointing straight at each other, 5.25 components active in some kicks with with the tweeters also housed down there, 6.5's with the passive x-overs in the rear doors and some 4in midbass/mid range in the factory rear pillars and the fatory 8in. sub replaced with a Pro Audio 8in and i wanted to know how that sounded to you guys and your input on this setup? i'll be running 75rms to each of the front components (doors and kicks) about 50rms to the rear doors and to the 4in mids with 125-150rms to the 8in. do you think i'll have too much going on in the back? i do want to make listening pleasurable to the people in the rear seat aswell as the front.

[Impious 1,476]

First, you have too many speakers up front. You only need/want one pair of tweeters up front, not two. You also will not want both the 6.5" in the doors and the 5.25" in the kicks, both playing midrange and midbass (which I'm guessing was your plan). If you want to do a 3-way up front, do a true 3-way up front. If doing a 3-way front stage, in my opinion there's no point in using a 6.5" midbass and a 5.25" midrange. If you plan on using a 6.5" mid in the door, decrease the size of the midrange to 3"-4" to gain some advantage there from the 3-way system design. Though based on your post I'm not sure you have the skill set at the moment to pull off a properly tuned 3-way active front stage. My suggestion would be to stick with a simple 2-way or passive 3-way.

Second, I would still forgo rear speakers. Properly setup the rear passengers will have no problem hearing the front speakers. If you must have rear speakers, I would just go with a simple co-axial and have them faded off when no one is back there. When someone is back there, just bring them up enough to be audible. You are overcomplicating the rear speaker setup.

Last, I'm not sure what you mean by "Pro Audio 8in subwoofer", but using a true Pro Audio style 8" driver as a subwoofer is not going to work. They are going to need a largish ported enclosure to even begin to perform properly, and even then the low frequency response is going to be anemic.

Overall, I would say start over from scratch on the system design.

What is your budget and what is your goal? What equipment do you have right now you plan to use, and what equipment you were looking to use?

[OuTLaWeD 110]

the plan was to put a 6.5 Midbass in the front doors with the 5.25 mid range in the kicks with the tweeter in the front factory location in the A pillars the second set of tweets in the kick pods with the 5.25's and another set of 2 way 6.5 components in the rear doors on a passive setup with the 4in midrange in the far rear pillars in the factory location. the 8in pro audio would be for midbass as well in it's factory location. i haven't gotten around to choosing the sub stage yet, but i've been thinking maybe a pair of 15's sealed or possibly 12's in a 1/4 wave. i've not decided.

Edited June 24, 2012 by ChILL

[OuTLaWeD 110]

i've always been into getting loud and now i want something that sounds great and full instead of hallow and loud

[Impious 1,476]

the plan was to put a 6.5 Midbass in the front doors with the 5.25 mid range in the kicks with the tweeter in the front factory location in the A pillars the second set of tweets in the kick pods with the 5.25's

Again, ditch the 2nd pair of tweeters in the kicks. Completely unnecessary and will make things worse instead of better.

Also, a 5.25" midrange isn't of much use in a 3-way front stage. It sort of defeats the purpose of a 3-way to start with. If you must go 3-way, drop the midrange down to a 3"-4" midrange. It will have better high frequency extension and response. Although I still say stick with either 2-way front stage or a 3-way passive setup. I can tell just from your postings in this thread that a 3-way active frontstage is going to be well beyond your capabilities. I know active is all the rage anymore....but the advantages of active will only become relevant when the active setup is properly tuned and installed. A poorly installed and tuned active front stage will sound worse than reasonably well installed passive setup.

So, 2-way active or 3-way passive front stage is for you. Personally, I would high suggest you consider the more simple 2-way front stage idea.

and another set of 2 way 6.5 components in the rear doors on a passive setup

Unnecessary. A reasonable quality co-axial speaker will be more than satisfactory back there. When no one is back there, they will be muted anyways. All it has to do is play just audible enough for the rear seat passengers to hear it. That's it. It doesn't need to be loud, and with as quiet as these speakers will be a basic co-axial will sound fine.

Although I haven't had rear speakers in a decade and I've never had anyone sit in my rear seat have a problem hearing the front speakers. I still say they are unnecessary overall. But if you feel you must, a basic co-axial is more than sufficient.

with the 4in midrange in the far rear pillars in the factory location.

Unnecessary and you won't have the necessary processing or skill level to properly utilize them. It will make things worse instead of better.

the 8in pro audio would be for midbass as well in it's factory location.

No. Bad idea and poor implementation. Scratch this from the board. Not going to happen.

i haven't gotten around to choosing the sub stage yet, but i've been thinking maybe a pair of 15's sealed or possibly 12's in a 1/4 wave. i've not decided.

1/4 wave you mean a T-line? Unnecessary.

Basic sealed or ported will do everything you need.

Again, start over. The entire system design needs rethought. Your original plan is just not an implementation that will allow you to achieve the goals you indicated in the original post and thread title.

[Impious 1,476]

And what do you plan to use for processing?

[OuTLaWeD 110]

an Audiocontrol DQL-8 is what i had originally planned. you are correct that i have never ran a 3 way setup, but i really want to do this as i feel it's the only way i'm going to learn. i will ditch the 8in. idea and the components in the pods. doing that i will then add a 4in. mid to the front door and still attemp an active setup. i will follow your guidance if you can help me

[audio-neon 34]

Just a tip, the less drivers you can use to achieve your goal, the better the system will sound.

You will want a dedicated mid-bass (6.5" at the smallest) in your doors. Something that is designed to be a midbass in infinite baffle/free air (car audio type of speaker).

Midbass and tweeters should be on the same vertical axis to make tuning easier, so make sure your kicks and pillars are on the same vertical axis.

If you have midbass in your doors, you will not need another 8" midbass anywhere else, so instead of replacing the factory 8" with a midbass, your best bet is to find a quality subwoofer ( or pair) and have them put into a lowish tuned ported box (or sealed).

And remember, keep it simple, simple sounds good.

[OuTLaWeD 110]

these are the 6.5's i'll be using for the doors. http://www.wooferset...-subwoofer.aspx now that i'm reconfiguring i'll have to find a good set of 3 or 4in midrange also. maybe the CDT ES-4's for the midrange.

Edited June 24, 2012 by ChILL

[ssh 924]

these are the 6.5's i'll be using for the doors. http://www.wooferset...-subwoofer.aspx now that i'm reconfiguring i'll have to find a good set of 3 or 4in midrange also. maybe the CDT ES-4's for the midrange.

I wouldn't pick any drivers that don't list T/S specs / no frequency response graphs. You need to be able to figure out a rough estimate of their usable frequency range, so you know what other drivers to pick that will "mate" well.

IE: Driver A has a decent FR from 80hz to 400hz, so then you'll be looking for Driver B with a decent FR around 400hz to etc.

Your going to want some headroom for picking your crossover points, but using three drivers each with a wide bandwidth (big FR) isn't exactly wanted either.

The installation type (door, pods, vented kicks, etc) will also effect the FR, just something to keep in mind.

You've already attracted people that know a thing or two about "SQ" setups, so don't be too stubborn about what they suggest.

[///M5 2,833]

Are you sure you want an SQ setup? Based on your equipment list I am extremely doubtful.

I also wouldn't jump into a front stage with more than a tweeter and a mid to start with. Work that alone for a bit and then go three way. Otherwise you'll miss your goal if that was truly spoken

[Impious 1,476]

an Audiocontrol DQL-8 is what i had originally planned. you are correct that i have never ran a 3 way setup, but i really want to do this as i feel it's the only way i'm going to learn. i will ditch the 8in. idea and the components in the pods. doing that i will then add a 4in. mid to the front door and still attemp an active setup. i will follow your guidance if you can help me

I really think a 2-way active front stage is a great place to start. The learning curve on properly tuning an active setup can be steep. You learn with the 2-way active then progress to a 3-way active. It sounds easy, but getting it right and maximizing performance isn't as simple as setting the crossover and calling it done. Coupling little to no experience with a 3-way active front stage is a great way to end up with a stereo that never really sounds goods.

Also, the DQL-8 is not going to be a good processor for 2-way active, and from what I can find isn't capable of 3-way active. For starters, it has no means by which to bandpass an output other than the sub channel.

[OuTLaWeD 110]

alright, maybe i have bitten off a little too much at one time. i've always used passive setups and have always heard great things about 3 way actives and wanted to try my hand at it. like it's easy to make things loud, but for me they just haven't had that warmth to them.

[///M5 2,833]

Just realized the title of the thread is imaging help.

Step one. Only use one mid and one tweeter. Step two, get a real active processor. Step 0.5 have your installation locations and parameters defined BEFORE shopping for drivers.

/thread

[OuTLaWeD 110]

alright, 6.5in in the door and tweeters in the A pillars facing each other. i am still debating on wheather or not to get the kick pods and put the 6.5's in there instead of the doors that way they are closer to equal listening distances.

[ssh 924]

alright, 6.5in in the door and tweeters in the A pillars facing each other. i am still debating on wheather or not to get the kick pods and put the 6.5's in there instead of the doors that way they are closer to equal listening distances.

Getting the distance as close as possible will help overall, less dependency on trying to bandaid it with a processor.

The 6.5" drivers are going to have a better frequency response being near on axis (kicks) then off axis in doors, especially since beaming will be present.

[OuTLaWeD 110]

my thoughts exactly. it'll be alot easier to correct that than if they were in the doors.

[///M5 2,833]

Why a 6.5? (ie, 7 IMO in that size range is better due to the choices available)

What sub are you trying to blend this with?

[ssh 924]

Why a 6.5? (ie, 7 IMO in that size range is better due to the choices available)

What sub are you trying to blend this with?

4 15s and 8kw.

I kid--hopefully.

[ricksi30 923]

Why a 6.5? (ie, 7 IMO in that size range is better due to the choices available)

What sub are you trying to blend this with?

4 15s and 8kw.

I kid--hopefully.

Close haha I think he mentioned two 18's on a shitload of power.

[Impious 1,476]

alright, 6.5in in the door and tweeters in the A pillars facing each other. i am still debating on wheather or not to get the kick pods and put the 6.5's in there instead of the doors that way they are closer to equal listening distances.

Yes.

[Impious 1,476]

alright, 6.5in in the door and tweeters in the A pillars facing each other. i am still debating on wheather or not to get the kick pods and put the 6.5's in there instead of the doors that way they are closer to equal listening distances.

Yes.

I should add that kicks are a good idea IF they are properly aimed, are of solid construction and have sufficient airspace.

So that rules out Qlogics and the like. Pretty well requires something custom built.

[OuTLaWeD 110]

i had first planned on 18's sealed up with around 4K, but i have been debating that knowing that it's hard to have a really great sounding system with that much power and cone area. i have now been thinking about doing two 15's in a sealed enclosure with around 3K. i think that i can make a pretty musical system out of it. i'm pretty sure that i'm gonna get heat out of this whole thing no matter what i do so i think i'm just gonna sit back and ChILL till it's done. i've never been one to post what i have or what i've done because i just find people hating all the time instead of just going with the flow and offering true help. I know that Impious is truelly guiding me in the right direction and beeing a cool guy with my search for a great sounding system. i'm not an idiot, i know you can't have SPL and a really musical setup "I.E: four 15's and 8K or a pair of 18's and a shitload of power" i am however stuck between what i know and what i want though i'll give you that. don't play me as an idiot just because i've never wanted an "SQ" type system before. i'm not stupid

[ricksi30 923]

i had first planned on 18's sealed up with around 4K, but i have been debating that knowing that it's hard to have a really great sounding system with that much power and cone area. i have now been thinking about doing two 15's in a sealed enclosure with around 3K. i think that i can make a pretty musical system out of it. i'm pretty sure that i'm gonna get heat out of this whole thing no matter what i do so i think i'm just gonna sit back and ChILL till it's done. i've never been one to post what i have or what i've done because i just find people hating all the time instead of just going with the flow and offering true help. I know that Impious is truelly guiding me in the right direction and beeing a cool guy with my search for a great sounding system. i'm not an idiot, i know you can't have SPL and a really musical setup "I.E: four 15's and 8K or a pair of 18's and a shitload of power" i am however stuck between what i know and what i want though i'll give you that. don't play me as an idiot just because i've never wanted an "SQ" type system before. i'm not stupid

Never said you were stupid man. You and I are kind of throwing around some similar ideas. I started a thread a few weeks ago about going active and decided it was too much for me. I always need a loud setup that sounds good, maybe that is your goal as well?

[///M5 2,833]

The difficulty is if you truly want that much bass you will need WAY more up front to actually blend. SQ setups aren't going to have a bass bias. My question

Are you sure you want an SQ setup? Based on your equipment list I am extremely doubtful.

has been clarified. By no means is that what you want. Perhaps you should describe your goals instead of using terminology that isn't applicable. This is exactly why in the new member posting guidelines we ask that SQ isn't used. Just because that description doesn't fit what you want doesn't mean your goals are bad, but to help you meet them we need to know what they are.