Split Coil vs XBL^2

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

just curious, (need to ask here to keep out the fan boys)

what was the advantage for RE to move to SC on the new XXX (other than more power handeling)?

[ImReady77 0]

cheaper to them probably

[Impious 1,476]

http://forum.carstereos.org/showthread.php?t=56398

Compares and contrasts XBL^2, LMT and Split Coil in detail.

Downside: Given from a "biased" author (Dan Wiggins).....lets face it...you're always going to like your technology more than someone else's, otherwise you wouldn't be using/licensing it.

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

http://forum.carstereos.org/showthread.php?t=56398

Compares and contrasts XBL^2, LMT and Split Coil in detail.

Downside: Given from a "biased" author (Dan Wiggins).....lets face it...you're always going to like your technology more than someone else's, otherwise you wouldn't be using/licensing it.

I read that a little while ago, but I was wondering if there is some other news out there that would be unbiased

[mrray13 30]

at least dan said it would be biased...lol...

but that thread made sense. my thoughts are this, and they might well be irrelevant....if xbl^2 is so great, or even SC, why is it the only major sub company using any of the three topologies is (will be) using LMT? or is there something out there that i'm missing?

that is a question that i have yet to see answered. all the hype over the brahma and old xxx, yet ascendent was the only other company i've heard of to use xbl^2..or am i wrong?

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Adrian_D 520]

i certainly haven't seen a bl vs xcursion graph on the link squeak posted.

on the TC sounds spec sheets, those graphs appear (i've only looked at tc2+ and tc9).

i remember i've seen one of those graphs for the lmt.

Edited March 24, 2006 by Adrian_D

[Impious 1,476]

but that thread made sense. my thoughts are this, and they might well be irrelevant....if xbl^2 is so great, or even SC, why is it the only major sub company using any of the three topologies is (will be) using LMT? or is there something out there that i'm missing?

that is a question that i have yet to see answered. all the hype over the brahma and old xxx, yet ascendent was the only other company i've heard of to use xbl^2..or am i wrong?

One thing to remember.....anybody who uses XBL^2 likely has a NDA (non-disclosure agreement) with Adire and/or their buildhouse, and the company using it is not required to disclose/advertise their useage of XBL^2 if they do not want to. Which means.....there may be far more XBL^2 drivers on the market than you know about, simply because 1) Dan/Adire/the buildhouse cannot disclose who and what companies are using the technology, and 2) the company using the technology isn't promoting/advertising their useage of the technology.

Dan has made mention many times in the past that there are far more XBL^2 drivers out on the market (car audio and home audio) than we realize.

[CBFryman 2]

time to start getting the ban saw out and chopping random motors in half

Split Gapped using XBL FTW lmao.

[mrray13 30]

but that thread made sense. my thoughts are this, and they might well be irrelevant....if xbl^2 is so great, or even SC, why is it the only major sub company using any of the three topologies is (will be) using LMT? or is there something out there that i'm missing?

that is a question that i have yet to see answered. all the hype over the brahma and old xxx, yet ascendent was the only other company i've heard of to use xbl^2..or am i wrong?

One thing to remember.....anybody who uses XBL^2 likely has a NDA (non-disclosure agreement) with Adire and/or their buildhouse, and the company using it is not required to disclose/advertise their useage of XBL^2 if they do not want to. Which means.....there may be far more XBL^2 drivers on the market than you know about, simply because 1) Dan/Adire/the buildhouse cannot disclose who and what companies are using the technology, and 2) the company using the technology isn't promoting/advertising their useage of the technology.

Dan has made mention many times in the past that there are far more XBL^2 drivers out on the market (car audio and home audio) than we realize.

well, that's what i was missing...lol..

but still yet, IMO, xbl^2 isn't all that's it's cracked up to be. on paper, maybe. but in real world, with real ears, it's not all that.

i'm not trying to say any other topology is better, but IME, there are other very well built subs that can compete. like the man ramos has said...85% install, 10% equipment and 5% beer. the wrong install and xbl^2 falls flat just like everything else.

but then again, what do i know???

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[JimJ 11]

but then again, what do i know???

nussing!

Motor technology boners are no different than any other kind of product boner. Choose the best one based on your needs, applications...

[ngsm13 1]

but that thread made sense. my thoughts are this, and they might well be irrelevant....if xbl^2 is so great, or even SC, why is it the only major sub company using any of the three topologies is (will be) using LMT? or is there something out there that i'm missing?

that is a question that i have yet to see answered. all the hype over the brahma and old xxx, yet ascendent was the only other company i've heard of to use xbl^2..or am i wrong?

One thing to remember.....anybody who uses XBL^2 likely has a NDA (non-disclosure agreement) with Adire and/or their buildhouse, and the company using it is not required to disclose/advertise their useage of XBL^2 if they do not want to. Which means.....there may be far more XBL^2 drivers on the market than you know about, simply because 1) Dan/Adire/the buildhouse cannot disclose who and what companies are using the technology, and 2) the company using the technology isn't promoting/advertising their useage of the technology.

Dan has made mention many times in the past that there are far more XBL^2 drivers out on the market (car audio and home audio) than we realize.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well, that's what i was missing...lol..

but still yet, IMO, xbl^2 isn't all that's it's cracked up to be. on paper, maybe. but in real world, with real ears, it's not all that.

i'm not trying to say any other topology is better, but IME, there are other very well built subs that can compete. like the man ramos has said...85% install, 10% equipment and 5% beer. the wrong install and xbl^2 falls flat just like everything else.

but then again, what do i know???

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed.

Chop out the strongest parts of the motor FTW!!!!

xbl^2 isn't the end all be all... it's... "okay"... a happy medium maybe...

nG

[Eldorado 0]

Honestly, who really cares what kind of motor it is.

If the sub sounds great and peforms great then what makes a difference ?

[Tirefryr 1,742]

Honestly, who really cares what kind of motor it is.

If the sub sounds great and peforms great then what makes a difference ?

The fanboys, hype, and the fact that 90% of the people on the internet think they're experts.

Eclipse is using the LMT as nothing more than a marketing strategy. How many "normal" consumers have any idea what the technology is, let alone understand it? Their marketing will concentrate on all the positives and get the consumer hyped up about it. Same thing with MTX and their Thunder9500 series, and JL with the Dub7s. To a lot of consumers, a subwoofer is a subwoofer. Will they really understand the advantages of the LMT or be able to distinguish it from another driver? The only things that make one better than another is powerhandling, looks, or hype. Retail. . .

[Eldorado 0]

Honestly, who really cares what kind of motor it is.

If the sub sounds great and peforms great then what makes a difference ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The fanboys, hype, and the fact that 90% of the people on the internet think they're experts.

Eclipse is using the LMT as nothing more than a marketing strategy. How many "normal" consumers have any idea what the technology is, let alone understand it? Their marketing will concentrate on all the positives and get the consumer hyped up about it. Same thing with MTX and their Thunder9500 series, and JL with the Dub7s. To a lot of consumers, a subwoofer is a subwoofer. Will they really understand the advantages of the LMT or be able to distinguish it from another driver? The only things that make one better than another is powerhandling, looks, or hype. Retail. . .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Probably no normal people know what's exactly in their subs.

Once you go past the fun stuff and into the nitty gritty then problems start to arrise.

Comparing T/S params is a whole nother ball game IMO

[Impious 1,476]

Eclipse is using the LMT as nothing more than a marketing strategy.  How many "normal" consumers have any idea what the technology is, let alone understand it?

Will they understand it? No.

But it's a fancy term to tell your buddies when you're showing off your awesome new subwoofers. And that fancy term sure pulled you in in the first place, with the salesman talking about how "linear" (whatever in the hell that term means, the consumer is probably thinking to themselves) this famn dancy new motor design is.

I'd be willing to bet 90% of the salesman selling the subs don't have a clue how the technology actually works, or how it works to "improve" things.

I was actually in my local dealer Friday inquiring about the new Eclipse SW8200 subwoofers (I'll admit, those have me seriously interested), and the manager (not just a salesman, but the store manager) was trying to sell me on last years models that he still has in stock. Ver batim "They're basically the same thing". Errmmm.....not really Ofcourse he was just trying to get rid of some inventory...but I wouldn't be surprised if "new terminology" was really all he sees in the Eclipse subs and the LMT motor design. I didn't argue with him....just politely said "no thanks", and turned and walked out. Though I should have asked how much I could have gotten the older subs for....he kept using the word "cheap", which as you know is a rarity at a B&M shop.

[mrray13 30]

Eclipse is using the LMT as nothing more than a marketing strategy.

[Impious 1,476]

what's kewl, is we got to hear the topology before they even heard about it...lol...

Teehee....yeah, I was hoping my inquiring would turn into a delightful conversation about the technology and it's advantages/disadvantages, and about SS having the first production driver to use it.....but the damn guy wouldn't stop simply trying to sell me last years models, so we never even actually talked about the new Eclipse subs (other than "he can order them if I want them....but I could get the older models that're in inventory for 'cheap'".

Oh well....such is life at the local dealer Makes me wish we had more than 1 local Eclipse dealer...LOL

[mrray13 30]

what's kewl, is we got to hear the topology before they even heard about it...lol...

Teehee....yeah, I was hoping my inquiring would turn into a delightful conversation about the technology and it's advantages/disadvantages, and about SS having the first production driver to use it.....but the damn guy wouldn't stop simply trying to sell me last years models, so we never even actually talked about the new Eclipse subs (other than "he can order them if I want them....but I could get the older models that're in inventory for 'cheap'".

Oh well....such is life at the local dealer Makes me wish we had more than 1 local Eclipse dealer...LOL

now i'm definitely going to the eclipse dealer monday..lol....

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Eldorado 0]

Dont do it kent !

[Adrian_D 520]

just how long is the voice coil on the, let's say the re xxx ? generally xbl^2 designs...

someone on another forum says it has to be longer than double the xmax. but that's weird, it means the xxx should have a coil longer than 66mm.

Edited March 27, 2006 by Adrian_D

[Impious 1,476]

just how long is the voice coil on the, let's say the re xxx ? generally xbl^2 designs...

someone on another forum says it has to be longer than double the xmax. but that's weird, it means the xxx should have a coil longer than 66mm.

In a standard overhung the coil has to be longer than twice the Xmax. Such is not so with the XBL^2 drivers. That's one of it's advantages over standard overhung; more or the same Xmax with a shorter coil (all things equal, less Mms, less inductance). XBL^2 drivers don't get their Xmax from using a long coil....they get it by using a taller topplate.

But I don't know off hand know the length of the older RE XXX coil. But it's less than the total thickness of the topplate

[///M5 2,833]

what's kewl, is we got to hear the topology before they even heard about it...lol...

Teehee....yeah, I was hoping my inquiring would turn into a delightful conversation about the technology and it's advantages/disadvantages, and about SS having the first production driver to use it.....but the damn guy wouldn't stop simply trying to sell me last years models, so we never even actually talked about the new Eclipse subs (other than "he can order them if I want them....but I could get the older models that're in inventory for 'cheap'".

Oh well....such is life at the local dealer Makes me wish we had more than 1 local Eclipse dealer...LOL

And the funny part about it to me is that he thinks he is a sales guy. They are the type of people that ruin my industry and give salespeople a bad name. When I travel with Regional Managers/Reps that come in and just spew out information regarding their products I tell them to never come travel with me again because I can't deal with the "show up and throw up". A real salesperson would have asked you questions and before ever starting the process of showing you squat would have realized that you had already heard an LMT even if he knew nothing about it.