4th order help for two zv4 18s

[ricksi30 923]

Well guess what my amps were tuned with a dd-1, and there was no distortion or clipping whatsoever,...

What a shock!

[garychurch84 127]

Some people have to learn the hard way. Unfortunately in this instance it's harder to learn when even a sub optimal enclosure should be very loud due to small cabin volume, cone area displacement, and power.

 

Using other peoples' records or measurements of output as supporting evidence for using a 4th other BP makes no sense at all. Their "db numbers" and results are arbitrary.

 

Forget about enclosure types and alignments, lets just simplify it to enclosure A and enclosure B.

 

If I tested enclosure A and it was 160dB then clearly it's the best choice right? What if enclosure B would have done 162db, or 160dB over a longer frequency range, but I never actually built enclosure B so I'll never know that. So in reality just because enclosure A is loud doesn't mean it's the loudest or the best unless you've tested other enclosures for comparison.

 

A lot of the builds for SPL are designed for maximum spl over a small frequency range, they're competing for numbers, not for overall loudness (though that's not always the case). So something built for SPL doesn't mean it's the best choice for music or "daily."

 

Another thing to consider is there's a big trend of people using 4th order BP and they don't know why they picked that enclosure type other then they heard "joe blah blah did 158 at 35hz" so it must be good, and so they build a 4th order BP. This perpetuates to where all these people are using it and therefore it MUST be good, and yet they haven't tested a standard ported enclosure or ported "Wall" for comparison.

 

It becomes harder to dissuade people from this mindset when people are using lots of cone area and power for builds because even if you have a shitty enclosure design more than likely it's still going to be fucking loud. "Dude it did a 160db so it works" Yeah but what if it switched to a ported enclosure and it did a 161, then what? There's many ways to accomplish a goal, but they don't all have the same easiness or efficiency.

 

Here's another analogy because I want this to sink in. You wanted to move a shit load of dirt and you filled up the trunk of a 2004 honda civic to move this mountain of dirt from point a to point b, and it took ten trips, but it worked. The proof that you moved the dirt (regardless of how many trips it took or how absurd it was) is enough to say it's not only a good method, but it's the best method. Now what if someone said "hey why don't you use a pickup truck and do it in one trip?," and you think "well everyone around here uses 2004 honda civics so fuck your stupid pickup truck." You would sound incredibly ignorant to say the least, and that's pretty much how you sound when you're insistent on using an enclosure alignment that you know absolutely nothing about other than other peoples' arbitrary numbers resulting from such.

 

I'm not exactly saying standard ported enclosures are better than 4th BP enclosures (though I believe 99% of the time they make sense over a 4th order BP in car audio builds), but I'm trying to make you open your eyes or at least question why people think 4th BP are better (scientifically not anecdotally).

 

Another thing to keep in mind is there is no such thing as a good ratio. The enclosure needs to be designed around the driver's parameters. Attempting to use some special ratio is no different than putting a spare tire from a honda civic on a dodge pickup truck (that happen to have to the same bolt pattern, hey it fits so it should work...). I mean yeah you can technically drive so it "works," but it's not exactly optimal or near the potential of the vehicle's handling abilities.

 

So yeah if you still don't heed any of the aforementioned advice after reading this than good luck, for only luck will bring you happiness with your latest enclosure.

+1 I say let him go.it'l sort its self out

[REVpuggie 23]

Some people have to learn the hard way. Unfortunately in this instance it's harder to learn when even a sub optimal enclosure should be very loud due to small cabin volume, cone area displacement, and power.

 

Using other peoples' records or measurements of output as supporting evidence for using a 4th other BP makes no sense at all. Their "db numbers" and results are arbitrary.

 

Forget about enclosure types and alignments, lets just simplify it to enclosure A and enclosure B.

 

If I tested enclosure A and it was 160dB then clearly it's the best choice right? What if enclosure B would have done 162db, or 160dB over a longer frequency range, but I never actually built enclosure B so I'll never know that. So in reality just because enclosure A is loud doesn't mean it's the loudest or the best unless you've tested other enclosures for comparison.

 

A lot of the builds for SPL are designed for maximum spl over a small frequency range, they're competing for numbers, not for overall loudness (though that's not always the case). So something built for SPL doesn't mean it's the best choice for music or "daily."

 

Another thing to consider is there's a big trend of people using 4th order BP and they don't know why they picked that enclosure type other then they heard "joe blah blah did 158 at 35hz" so it must be good, and so they build a 4th order BP. This perpetuates to where all these people are using it and therefore it MUST be good, and yet they haven't tested a standard ported enclosure or ported "Wall" for comparison.

 

It becomes harder to dissuade people from this mindset when people are using lots of cone area and power for builds because even if you have a shitty enclosure design more than likely it's still going to be pucking loud. "Dude it did a 160db so it works" Yeah but what if it switched to a ported enclosure and it did a 161, then what? There's many ways to accomplish a goal, but they don't all have the same easiness or efficiency.

 

Here's another analogy because I want this to sink in. You wanted to move a shit load of dirt and you filled up the trunk of a 2004 honda civic to move this mountain of dirt from point a to point b, and it took ten trips, but it worked. The proof that you moved the dirt (regardless of how many trips it took or how absurd it was) is enough to say it's not only a good method, but it's the best method. Now what if someone said "hey why don't you use a pickup truck and do it in one trip?," and you think "well everyone around here uses 2004 honda civics so fuck your stupid pickup truck." You would sound incredibly ignorant to say the least, and that's pretty much how you sound when you're insistent on using an enclosure alignment that you know absolutely nothing about other than other peoples' arbitrary numbers resulting from such.

 

I'm not exactly saying standard ported enclosures are better than 4th BP enclosures (though I believe 99% of the time they make sense over a 4th order BP in car audio builds), but I'm trying to make you open your eyes or at least question why people think 4th BP are better (scientifically not anecdotally).

 

Another thing to keep in mind is there is no such thing as a good ratio. The enclosure needs to be designed around the driver's parameters. Attempting to use some special ratio is no different than putting a spare tire from a honda civic on a dodge pickup truck (that happen to have to the same bolt pattern, hey it fits so it should work...). I mean yeah you can technically drive so it "works," but it's not exactly optimal or near the potential of the vehicle's handling abilities.

 

So yeah if you still don't heed any of the aforementioned advice after reading this than good luck, for only luck will bring you happiness with your latest enclosure.

+1 I say let him go.it'l sort its self out

good write up , couln't have said it better !

[///M5 2,833]

Everyone who said use 3:1 was joking. Seriously.

So you know it is good for a 4th BP, yet you can't state why? In other words you just want it to be because you want to try one. If you are okay with that even though it won't net you as good of results as a different alternative go ahead. If you aren't okay with having a less than optimized system then spend the time to answer the question. When you do you will finally have learned something.

 

 

Well let's see how about sundown told me they are great 4th order subs, how about the loudest jeep in the world/ world champion for multiple years in a row is running 4 zv4 15s in a 4th order wall and doing 160s, not saying that's what mine will do but I'm simply stating that the subs work great in a 4th. Just a simple as that. But this is my last message, so I already have a design now and I'm going to build it.

You could have just said you have no clue and maybe it isn't but wanted to make it sound legit. What you cited has NOTHING to do with specs.

As for the rest, well enjoy hauling dirt with your Honda.

[jcarter1885 995]

I don't know what's worse this guy continuing to argue about the same thing or people actually entertaining him. Gotta love the internet

[mnorwood2114 8]

Honda who has a honda ?

[mnorwood2114 8]

I'll be back with videos, so you can guys can hate on the hairtricks lmao.

[mnorwood2114 8]

I'll be back with videos, so you can guys can hate on the hairtricks lmao.

[EPerez 236]

I'll be back with videos, so you can guys can hate on the hairtricks lmao.

Ohh you're so cool! You'll be able to do a hair trick with 2 18s in a small ass suv on 10k. I can do one with 2 12s in my car on 2.5k. All in the DESIGN.

Edited December 15, 2013 by Bassink

[smashedz28 110]

SMD has rotted your brain. All you had to do was ask a more specific question and not be such a know-it-all and you could have got the knowledge needed to design your enclosure properly. Not just a bullshit ratio but actual knowledge of how it works. Ever wonder why everyone here is arguing with you? We must just be stupid and jealous of your setup

[mnorwood2114 8]

I'll be back with videos, so you can guys can hate on the hairtricks lmao.

 

 

Ohh you're so cool! You'll be able to do a hair trick with 4 15s in a small ass suv on 10k.  I can do one with 2 12s in my car on 2.5k. All in the DESIGN.

i dont have four 15s and not doing four 15s, maybe you should read before you speak

[mnorwood2114 8]

SMD has rotted your brain. All you had to do was ask a more specific question and not be such a know-it-all and you could have got the knowledge needed to design your enclosure properly. Not just a bullshit ratio but actual knowledge of how it works. Ever wonder why everyone here is arguing with you? We must just be stupid and jealous of your setup

 

 

I dont need none of you guys help, i have what i need now.

[nem 2,019]

Ok, if you knew where to go for the information you needed, why would you waste your time asking questions here?

[Impious 1,476]

SMD has rotted your brain. All you had to do was ask a more specific question and not be such a know-it-all and you could have got the knowledge needed to design your enclosure properly. Not just a bullshit ratio but actual knowledge of how it works. Ever wonder why everyone here is arguing with you? We must just be stupid and jealous of your setup

I dont need none of you guys help, i have what i need now.

You think you have what you need, but you don't actually possess the knowledge to know otherwise. If you did you could have simply answered M5's questions instead of just regurgitating what someone else told you. So far you haven't actually stated anything yourself, just that "someone" told you this, and "another guy" told you that. Monkey-see, monkey-do.

Between that and your statements about the DD1, it's pretty obvious you don't "know" what you think you do.

[///M5 2,833]

I dont need none of you guys help, i have what i need now.

 

 

Ok, if you knew where to go for the information you needed, why would you waste your time asking questions here?

Seems obvious to whore it up so he can use the classifieds. Of course no one in their right mind would buy those used subs.

[nem 2,019]

I dont need none of you guys help, i have what i need now.

 

 

>Ok, if you knew where to go for the information you needed, why would you waste your time asking questions here?

Seems obvious to whore it up so he can use the classifieds. Of course no one in their right mind would buy those used subs.

 

 

Did I miss his classified thread?

[mnorwood2114 8]

Guess what somebody will dumb fuck

[mnorwood2114 8]

Damn get m5 balls out your mouth

[mnorwood2114 8]

Yes and guess I bet I'm louder than you

[///M5 2,833]

Did I miss his classified thread?

Nope, but read his first post:

What's up guys, I have a 00 jeep grand cherokee. I have two crescendo 5500s and three zv4 18s which I'll be selling for two nsv3 18s. This is my first wall I'm building and I want to make sure I'm using the right ratio and box size. I was thinking of using a 3:1 ratio and anywhere from 2.5-3 cubes sealed per woofer and 15-18 ported  for the pair with a 25-47hz range. Any help or suggestions is much appreciated.

Guess what somebody will dumb fuck

Some dumb fuck might, exactly. In particular when you lie to them.

[mnorwood2114 8]

There is no lie dumb ass

[swift 501]

What does it meter? Let's hear just how loud you are??

[ssh 924]

This escaladed quickly.

[mnorwood2114 8]

bye bye ladies

[swift 501]

That's exactly what I thought, let's here those big numbers it does? Bet it don't even do 55's