4th order help for two zv4 18s

[Tirefryr 1,742]

The ONLY time a bandpass is worthwhile is if you want to mechanically control your passband via enclosure.  IT's not magical.  It's not special.  It's nothing more than a vented enclosure with a mechanical crossover.

 

Now, don't get so upset.    Just answer us this.  if you know that your driver is "built for 4th order," then you understand how to build 4th order, correct?  You seem to be telling us the answer to your question. 

[Tirefryr 1,742]

 

 

Well 4th order band pass enclosures don't really have a wide frequency range. Which is what you want right? A ported enclosure should have a better frequency range that you want.

ok now i see, you boviously dont understand how 4th orders work. 90 % of music , rap, hip hop, decaf, r&b are in 20-50 hz range. you dont ride around listening to music at 50hz and up. thats the whole purpose of a 4th order to give you a wide range of music. most 4th orders range from 25-45hz which is a excellent range. some of the loudest guys in the world have 4th orders that are very musical and can play wahtever they want at any frequency and do it loudly.

The music i listen to ranges from 20hz-20khz, lol im kidding.

Anyway, how does a 4th order bandpass equate to having a wider frequency bandwidth than ported? If the frequencies you are worried about is the 20-50 hz range then a 4th order bandpass will be alright, although that doesnt mean it wouldnt be easier to get that from a ported enclosure. If you have a design already in mind then whats the issue? You seem to not care what anyone says, so why not just do what you plan on doing, since thats the route youre going to take regaurdless.

 

 

Heres the thing im done with ported boxes, its time to move to the next step which is a wall. Im already loud with a ported box now. but thats like saying my ported box which has three 18s in it will be louder than it being walled. it aint happening. Im sorry you cat compare a ported box to a wall, only way that wlll happen if you had a retareded amount of power. I alreadly run 10-12k rms daily.

You can't compare any enclosure to a wall. 

[mnorwood2114 8]

The ONLY time a bandpass is worthwhile is if you want to mechanically control your passband via enclosure.  IT's not magical.  It's not special.  It's nothing more than a vented enclosure with a mechanical crossover.

 

Now, don't get so upset.    Just answer us this.  if you know that your driver is "built for 4th order," then you understand how to build 4th order, correct?  You seem to be telling us the answer to your question. 

 

 

Im not upset at all.  Yes i do understand how to build a 4th order, but the thread was about how many cubes sealed. everybody has diffrent taste, if I want it to hit real low then ill do a smaller ratio, if i want more spl then il do a higher ratio. But i have to disagree with you basically saying 4th orders are special, because it is literally no way in hell that guys like jared from team sundown, scott, or non sundown guys like jp price, steve mick will hit the same numbers with a ported box. that aint happening. in fact there is nobody in the audio world that can play music in the 60s with  a ported box, not a burp play music.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

Knowing what I do, I will disagree with you, but I can not argue with you either as that is what you have experienced.

[frogcase2002 393]

You know you can do just a ported wall right? I think that's what people were saying rather than the 4th order bandpass wall. Not just a ported enclosure

[mnorwood2114 8]

Knowing what I do, I will disagree with you, but I can not argue with you either as that is what you have experienced.

 what im saying i gurantee you cant find no one out here in the spl world that can play music in the 60s with ported box, let aone four 15s. if that was the case then guys would not compete witha 4th order wall

[mnorwood2114 8]

You know you can do just a ported wall right? I think that's what people were saying rather than the 4th order bandpass wall. Not just a ported enclosure

 

 

 what im saying is you have a subwoofer that is a great canidate for a 4th order badpass wall then put it in a 4th. not all sunbwoofers are meant for a 4th orders, but i no for a fact that the zv4 sub is

[frogcase2002 393]

Knowing what I do, I will disagree with you, but I can not argue with you either as that is what you have experienced.

 what im saying i gurantee you cant find no one out here in the spl world that can play music in the 60s with ported box, let aone four 15s. if that was the case then guys would not compete witha 4th order wall

I have heard music sounding good in the 60s in a ported enclosure that was a wall

[ramteid 17]

Well 4th order band pass enclosures don't really have a wide frequency range. Which is what you want right? A ported enclosure should have a better frequency range that you want.

ok now i see, you boviously dont understand how 4th orders work. 90 % of music , rap, hip hop, decaf, r&b are in 20-50 hz range. you dont ride around listening to music at 50hz and up. thats the whole purpose of a 4th order to give you a wide range of music. most 4th orders range from 25-45hz which is a excellent range. some of the loudest guys in the world have 4th orders that are very musical and can play wahtever they want at any frequency and do it loudly.

The music i listen to ranges from 20hz-20khz, lol im kidding.

Anyway, how does a 4th order bandpass equate to having a wider frequency bandwidth than ported? If the frequencies you are worried about is the 20-50 hz range then a 4th order bandpass will be alright, although that doesnt mean it wouldnt be easier to get that from a ported enclosure. If you have a design already in mind then whats the issue? You seem to not care what anyone says, so why not just do what you plan on doing, since thats the route youre going to take regaurdless.

Heres the thing im done with ported boxes, its time to move to the next step which is a wall. Im already loud with a ported box now. but thats like saying my ported box which has three 18s in it will be louder than it being walled. it aint happening. Im sorry you cat compare a ported box to a wall, only way that wlll happen if you had a retareded amount of power. I alreadly run 10-12k rms daily.

Talking about a ported wall. Just because you are walling it off does not mean that you have to do a 4th order bandpass. The reason a lot of spl competitors use them is just that, for spl, because they can get a huge peak for spl somewhat easier.

[mnorwood2114 8]

this is not for spl , its a ground pounder, and for me i like 4th orders.

[///M5 2,833]

this is not for spl , its a ground pounder, and for me i like 4th orders.

First, 4th order is NOT a bandpass. 4th describes the roll off of the enclosure. A simple ported box is a 4th order.

The rest of your babble has me convinced you have been extremely confused by others. You obviously don't care to hear that nor will you do anything different no matter what we say, so that being said I think you should do a 3:1 ratio and just build your box.

I'll give you another hint into reality though which you missed the first time. Anything relying on a rule of thumb doesn't always hold true, ie, using a ratio for a box is absurd. Enjoy yours.

[EPerez 236]

this is not for spl , its a ground pounder, and for me i like 4th orders.

First, 4th order is NOT a bandpass. 4th describes the roll off of the enclosure. A simple ported box is a 4th order.The rest of your babble has me convinced you have been extremely confused by others. You obviously don't care to hear that nor will you do anything different no matter what we say, so that being said I think you should do a 3:1 ratio and just build your box.I'll give you another hint into reality though which you missed the first time. Anything relying on a rule of thumb doesn't always hold true, ie, using a ratio for a box is absurd. Enjoy yours.

I've been waiting for you to come in lol

[mnorwood2114 8]

this is not for spl , its a ground pounder, and for me i like 4th orders.

First, 4th order is NOT a bandpass. 4th describes the roll off of the enclosure. A simple ported box is a 4th order.

The rest of your babble has me convinced you have been extremely confused by others. You obviously don't care to hear that nor will you do anything different no matter what we say, so that being said I think you should do a 3:1 ratio and just build your box.

I'll give you another hint into reality though which you missed the first time. Anything relying on a rule of thumb doesn't always hold true, ie, using a ratio for a box is absurd. Enjoy yours.

ratio does matter, tell that to the world champs that ratio dont matter. lol

[ramteid 17]

this is not for spl , its a ground pounder, and for me i like 4th orders.

First, 4th order is NOT a bandpass. 4th describes the roll off of the enclosure. A simple ported box is a 4th order.

The rest of your babble has me convinced you have been extremely confused by others. You obviously don't care to hear that nor will you do anything different no matter what we say, so that being said I think you should do a 3:1 ratio and just build your box.

I'll give you another hint into reality though which you missed the first time. Anything relying on a rule of thumb doesn't always hold true, ie, using a ratio for a box is absurd. Enjoy yours.

ratio does matter, tell that to the world champs that ratio dont matter. lol

Ratio only matters in the sense that the output and frequency response is that of what the person wants. Other than that, there is no magical "ratio" that will get you what you want every time.

[mnorwood2114 8]

 

 

this is not for spl , its a ground pounder, and for me i like 4th orders.

First, 4th order is NOT a bandpass. 4th describes the roll off of the enclosure. A simple ported box is a 4th order.

The rest of your babble has me convinced you have been extremely confused by others. You obviously don't care to hear that nor will you do anything different no matter what we say, so that being said I think you should do a 3:1 ratio and just build your box.

I'll give you another hint into reality though which you missed the first time. Anything relying on a rule of thumb doesn't always hold true, ie, using a ratio for a box is absurd. Enjoy yours.

ratio does matter, tell that to the world champs that ratio dont matter. lol

Ratio only matters in the sense that the output and frequency response is that of what the person wants. Other than that, there is no magical "ratio" that will get you what you want every time.

for me i like 25-45hz.

[ramteid 17]

this is not for spl , its a ground pounder, and for me i like 4th orders.

First, 4th order is NOT a bandpass. 4th describes the roll off of the enclosure. A simple ported box is a 4th order.

The rest of your babble has me convinced you have been extremely confused by others. You obviously don't care to hear that nor will you do anything different no matter what we say, so that being said I think you should do a 3:1 ratio and just build your box.

I'll give you another hint into reality though which you missed the first time. Anything relying on a rule of thumb doesn't always hold true, ie, using a ratio for a box is absurd. Enjoy yours.

ratio does matter, tell that to the world champs that ratio dont matter. lol

Ratio only matters in the sense that the output and frequency response is that of what the person wants. Other than that, there is no magical "ratio" that will get you what you want every time.

for me i like 25-45hz.

So what makes you thin that 3:1 ratio will acheive that?

[///M5 2,833]

ratio does matter, tell that to the world champs that ratio dont matter. lol

You seriously think any world champ in any style of box has built it off some arbitrary ratio?

What is your magic ratio is for a normal ported box?

[mnorwood2114 8]

dont worry about guys, ill ask the sundown guys. thank anyway.

[ricksi30 923]

don't worry guys he knows what's up.

[mnorwood2114 8]

don't worry guys he knows what's up.

Right right right lol

[ricksi30 923]

don't worry guys he knows what's up.

Right right right lol

You obviously don't want good advice so if you want to do what you are already set on doing, go for it.

[mnorwood2114 8]

don't worry guys he knows what's up.

Right right right lol

You obviously don't want good advice so if you want to do what you are already set on doing, go for it.

[mnorwood2114 8]

I'm going to get advice from people who actually have a 4th order , have built them, and run sundown 18s.

[ricksi30 923]

I'm going to get advice from people who actually have a 4th order , have built them, and run sundown 18s.

Good luck my friend.

[S.DeYoung 967]

OP has no idea what he is talking about. There is no magical ratio for a 4th order bandpass. What are the t/s of those subwoofers?

Here is a helpful page:

http://www.diysubwoofers.org/bnd/4thord1.htm

And yes I have built 4th order bandpass enclosures, not for the Z, you can't magically guess at ratios you need to do the math or pay a knowledgable person to design for you.