seeking advice for a fantastic quality set up

[tank 0]

hello all

for my 01 Pontiac Bonneville se, daily driver, I am in need of your suggestions for a complete system. my listening tastes are disco, HUGE house/techno listener, reggae, jazz, hip hop, and easy listening music!! 2-12 subs (no clue what to get), 4-6.5 mids for the four doors (eye-balling the jbl ms62c for sure), only 1 amp for the subs, and 1 amp for the 6.5 mids.. a good clean head unit, a sub box, wiring, etc,  and interested in having a parametric eq to tweak the sound as I listen to various types of music. really not interested in setting off car alarms! but definitely want to bang pretty good as im on the hwy.. key importance is sound quality, clarity, and accuracy. right now my budget is @ $1300 including the 4-jbls6c. willing to spend a little more NECESSARILY lol!!

appreciate your time and knowledge on this fellas!!

[Fi 4 life 0]

Read some other peoples posts. Go listen to speakers and see what you like

[///M5 2,833]

Rethink everything. 4 6.5's is a terrible idea.

[SpeakerBoy 64]

How involved are you willing to get?

There are two kinds of answers you'll get here, but that's the determining factor. Willingness to learn, and to practice.

Edited March 5, 2014 by SpeakerBoy

[Eroc3k 3]

Rethink everything. 4 6.5's is a terrible idea.

Why are the 6.5's a bad idea?

[pmureika 31]

 

Rethink everything. 4 6.5's is a terrible idea.

Why are the 6.5's a bad idea?

 

You just need front 6.5's. None in the rear doors to create live type music. 

[///M5 2,833]

Waste of money. SO MANY better ways to use it.

[THX_Elite 26]

I won't mention any specific brands here as that is all up to per listener opinion.  I will say one thing though, especially for sound quality, that a good set of 6.5" components up front makes a huge difference in setting up a quality front sound stage. Components allow you to get the quality sound and separation out of the super high range, ie. cymbals, high hats, synths, and all kinds of others especially found in House/Techno/ and the other styles of music you mentioned.  As for rear door speakers, it's all in preference.  Just think... (When your at a live performance watching the show, you don't hear the performers voice and instruments behind you).  Point is, you will not find that "fantastic quality set up" the first time...you will constantly find things you want to change, as do we all.

[altoncustomtech 773]

The OP is misusing the terms plain and simple when he says "key importance is sound quality, clarity, and accuracy".

 

What you're really looking for is a setup that sounds good with as little distortion as possible.  SQ, clarity and accuracy are great goals but the fact that you separate out the terms clarity and accuracy from SQ tells us that you don't fully understand the terminology to begin with.  SQ encompasses all the adjectives you can think of to describe quality.

 

I'm not trying to be an ass, or be insulting but having a stereo that has low distortion and keeps it's composure at higher volume levels has little to do with real SQ.  It's also much easier and cheaper to accomplish.  I agree with Sean that you should ditch the idea of dropping in all four 6.5" speakers.  Not only will it hurt the overall sound but it's money you can put to much better use in other aspects of the build.  Number one on the list of things to worry about is the locations you can put the speakers in the front of the car.  If you have good fabrication skills and experience then this is a much easier part than it would otherwise be.  If not and you're limited to factory locations then it's important to know that to help you optimize the installation for those locations as much as possible.  The next thing to worry about is sound deadening.  Properly deadening the vehicle will make a much bigger difference than you can imagine and coupled with a good install can easily whip systems that cost much more that were just thrown into the vehicle even when using less expensive products.  

 

At this point I would assume that all you've ever used were the coaxial speakers that fit the factory locations in the vehicle and an amp and subs.  Starting out with a decent passive component set, coupled with a great installation will serve you much better than just grabbing whatever speakers fit all the holes and filling them.

[THX_Elite 26]

^ good post ^  I am currently seeking places in the front of my car that will be a good fabrication point for either the 6x9's I have been using in the rear deck(unsure if I like the sound scape in this config) or getting a second pair of matching components for the front and not use the rear of the car for mids...When my front doors were sound dampened the difference in SQ blew my mind!

[lithium 358]

^ good post ^  I am currently seeking places in the front of my car that will be a good fabrication point for either the 6x9's I have been using in the rear deck(unsure if I like the sound scape in this config) or getting a second pair of matching components for the front and not use the rear of the car for mids...When my front doors were sound dampened the difference in SQ blew my mind!

Not sure what exactly you're trying to cook up but just stick to something simple like a set of 6.5 components. sell the rest

[///M5 2,833]

Two sets of drivers playing the same frequency range is a bad idea.

[SpeakerBoy 64]

Two sets of drivers playing the same frequency range is a bad idea.

for example, if two people are speaking to you at the exact same time, would it improve your ability to understand them? Nah, it'd sound fucking weird.

find one capable driver, not two lackluster drivers.

Edited March 6, 2014 by SpeakerBoy

[tank 0]

I  appreciate all of your responses! (i will be doing the big 3, dampening, etc)... lets c if i understand what you guys are trying to tell me tho! just go with the 2 6.5 in the front doors? will a great pr of 6x9 (dls, jbl, polks, ba) in the rear deck along with the 6.5 enhance or hinder the sound? I am very big on the mid sounds as u can tell! one of my biggest goals is to be able to hear every note n instrument in a song like jesse had mentioned, throughout the various types of music I listen to, whether being played @ low and high volumes! it is a lil hard for me to understand that only 2 fronts can fill the entire cabin area n keep up with the 2 ASTOUNDING 12's!! i know i bn out of the game for a good minute! lol!! also i hv no clue as how to match subs/comps to amps? 1 or 2 sub amps? ohms? what options to add onto the subs? and all of that stuff! tried the local audio shops to find out they are more into satisfying what these guys crave more of---a bunch of rattle n bang! 15's, a huge cheap amp n factory speakers! no clarity what so ever! lol!! so i decided to research some forums, and after reading many of u guys comments, i found YOU ALL to be very knowledgeable and im sure i will be pointed in the right direction..I love listening to good music at all volumes, CLEARLY with GOOD BANG is my thing! so please fellas chime in heavily on this! help me piece this thing together! im ready to pull the trigger on my purchases and get it to the shop where i ONLY trust them to build my box n install LOL!!!!

[lithium 358]

I  appreciate all of your responses! (i will be doing the big 3, dampening, etc)... lets c if i understand what you guys are trying to tell me tho! just go with the 2 6.5 in the front doors? will a great pr of 6x9 (dls, jbl, polks, ba) in the rear deck along with the 6.5 enhance or hinder the sound? I am very big on the mid sounds as u can tell! one of my biggest goals is to be able to hear every note n instrument in a song like jesse had mentioned, throughout the various types of music I listen to, whether being played @ low and high volumes! it is a lil hard for me to understand that only 2 fronts can fill the entire cabin area n keep up with the 2 ASTOUNDING 12's!! i know i bn out of the game for a good minute! lol!! also i hv no clue as how to match subs/comps to amps? 1 or 2 sub amps? ohms? what options to add onto the subs? and all of that stuff! tried the local audio shops to find out they are more into satisfying what these guys crave more of---a bunch of rattle n bang! 15's, a huge cheap amp n factory speakers! no clarity what so ever! lol!! so i decided to research some forums, and after reading many of u guys comments, i found YOU ALL to be very knowledgeable and im sure i will be pointed in the right direction..I love listening to good music at all volumes, CLEARLY with GOOD BANG is my thing! so please fellas chime in heavily on this! help me piece this thing together! im ready to pull the trigger on my purchases and get it to the shop where i ONLY trust them to build my box n install LOL!!!!

 

jesus, try some paragraphs. 

 

Stick with one set of 6.5 components upfront. 6x9s or whatever are fine too buy have no real advantages. 6.5s are probably easier to install in most cars. 

 

Anything installed in the rear deck or rear doors is a waste of money. better to spend that on the front comps/install/deadening. 

[///M5 2,833]

Two sets of drivers playing the same frequency range is a bad idea.

Since you didn't read, I'll quote myself.

Translation. 2 sets of 6.5's up front is bad. 6.5's up front and any mid in the rear is bad.

"Keeping" up is not done by adding a ton of drivers but optimizing the equipment and most importantly install.

[altoncustomtech 773]

^^EXACTLY!!^^

 

What on earth makes you think you need that much crap going on up front?  I have a single pair of 6.5" components in the front of my wife's van that have no problems getting loud enough to make her happy (not easy by the way, she's the biggest reason I've been through so many setups in that vehicle).  For that matter all I have for the highs in my Jimmy are a pair of 3" full range drivers and they get loud enough to make my ears hurt.

 

You need to rethink what you're doing.  A quality installation will trump a quantity installation any day.  All this time, effort and money you're trying to throw at this multiple speaker setup can be better spent by going with one good set of speakers up front and ensuring they have the best installation you can possibly give them.  It doesn't take a lot of reading to figure out what makes up a decent installation either.

 

Now, your plan of using separate amps for the highs and subs is spot on.  The only way you're going to output that will satisfy your craving for output and remain clean while doing it is to put a real amp on the highs as HU's don't deliver crap for power.  The JBL MS-62C's are well reviewed but everyone has a personal taste and these may or may not suit yours.  You need to go out and listen to as many sets as you can to get a feel for what you like and dislike about each one of them.  It will help you a great deal in deciding on a set you like.  As for the subs, don't go thinking you need 4,000 watts worth of amp and subs to give you great output.  A pair of simpler 12's such as the SSA GCON's (DCON's even, they'll be available again soon) or the Fi X series will yield tons of output in a properly designed enclosure, sound great doing it and not cost you an arm and a leg in subs and an amp but first thing is first you need to do some studying.  Go to as many shops and stores as possible and listen to as many sets as you possibly can to get an ear for what pleases you and what doesn't.  While you're at it study up on what makes a good installation.  Sound deadening will be a priority and the best information available on that is at Sound Deadener Showdown.  Not only is there a comprehensive and complete explanation on what and how the different products work the best way to install them is covered and there's even a break down of a simple yet effective way to install speakers in your doors.

 

Do all these things, get some more information under your belt and we can and will continue to help guide you through this process.  The main thing to do though is ditch the ideas of all these unnecessary speakers and concentrate on making the best install possible.

[THX_Elite 26]

 

I  appreciate all of your responses! (i will be doing the big 3, dampening, etc)... lets c if i understand what you guys are trying to tell me tho! just go with the 2 6.5 in the front doors? will a great pr of 6x9 (dls, jbl, polks, ba) in the rear deck along with the 6.5 enhance or hinder the sound? I am very big on the mid sounds as u can tell! one of my biggest goals is to be able to hear every note n instrument in a song like jesse had mentioned, throughout the various types of music I listen to, whether being played @ low and high volumes! it is a lil hard for me to understand that only 2 fronts can fill the entire cabin area n keep up with the 2 ASTOUNDING 12's!! i know i bn out of the game for a good minute! lol!! also i hv no clue as how to match subs/comps to amps? 1 or 2 sub amps? ohms? what options to add onto the subs? and all of that stuff! tried the local audio shops to find out they are more into satisfying what these guys crave more of---a bunch of rattle n bang! 15's, a huge cheap amp n factory speakers! no clarity what so ever! lol!! so i decided to research some forums, and after reading many of u guys comments, i found YOU ALL to be very knowledgeable and im sure i will be pointed in the right direction..I love listening to good music at all volumes, CLEARLY with GOOD BANG is my thing! so please fellas chime in heavily on this! help me piece this thing together! im ready to pull the trigger on my purchases and get it to the shop where i ONLY trust them to build my box n install LOL!!!!

 

jesus, try some paragraphs. 

 

Stick with one set of 6.5 components upfront. 6x9s or whatever are fine too buy have no real advantages. 6.5s are probably easier to install in most cars. 

 

Anything installed in the rear deck or rear doors is a waste of money. better to spend that on the front comps/install/deadening. 

 

I personally prefer some 6x9's in the rear deck of my car I decided, without them...at least in my Mazda Millinia the sound image is just to black and white, with no blend...it's all in what you think sounds better and also in what Alton advises about quality instalation with dampening.

[///M5 2,833]

I  appreciate all of your responses! (i will be doing the big 3, dampening, etc)... lets c if i understand what you guys are trying to tell me tho! just go with the 2 6.5 in the front doors? will a great pr of 6x9 (dls, jbl, polks, ba) in the rear deck along with the 6.5 enhance or hinder the sound? I am very big on the mid sounds as u can tell! one of my biggest goals is to be able to hear every note n instrument in a song like jesse had mentioned, throughout the various types of music I listen to, whether being played @ low and high volumes! it is a lil hard for me to understand that only 2 fronts can fill the entire cabin area n keep up with the 2 ASTOUNDING 12's!! i know i bn out of the game for a good minute! lol!! also i hv no clue as how to match subs/comps to amps? 1 or 2 sub amps? ohms? what options to add onto the subs? and all of that stuff! tried the local audio shops to find out they are more into satisfying what these guys crave more of---a bunch of rattle n bang! 15's, a huge cheap amp n factory speakers! no clarity what so ever! lol!! so i decided to research some forums, and after reading many of u guys comments, i found YOU ALL to be very knowledgeable and im sure i will be pointed in the right direction..I love listening to good music at all volumes, CLEARLY with GOOD BANG is my thing! so please fellas chime in heavily on this! help me piece this thing together! im ready to pull the trigger on my purchases and get it to the shop where i ONLY trust them to build my box n install LOL!!!!

 

jesus, try some paragraphs. 

 

Stick with one set of 6.5 components upfront. 6x9s or whatever are fine too buy have no real advantages. 6.5s are probably easier to install in most cars. 

 

Anything installed in the rear deck or rear doors is a waste of money. better to spend that on the front comps/install/deadening.

I personally prefer some 6x9's in the rear deck of my car I decided, without them...at least in my Mazda Millinia the sound image is just to black and white, with no blend...it's all in what you think sounds better and also in what Alton advises about quality instalation with dampening.

That denotes an installation problem. If the 6x9's helped at all there is a TON you could do to improve things...

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

As stated already its 90% install. A properly installed $100 set of speakers will sound better than a poorly installed $1500 set. The reason multiple speakers playing the same frequency range is a bad idea is because you will get cancellation/distortion IF not in phase. Think about when you hear the same sound form multiple sources, you get an echo, I call this the "Walmart sound". 

 

Are you doing the install yourself? What equipment do you already have?

[tank 0]

Ok cool i got it! Front doors it is! I am still left with how to match amps for 2 Fi Q12's 1500 rms (use 1 or 2 amps)? Amp for 6.5 comps which are 80rms ea? Also considering my budget for the amps are $700 or so.. what are some good choices that will give the most for my money

[THX_Elite 26]

I personally am absolutely In love with Hifonics amps purchased directly from sonic electronix, they are super amps, well built, look nice, are very capable and are loved by A TON of people, not to mention are VERY reasonably priced you could get two of my amps and still have enough to get an amp for your fronts and money left over!!! ... my amps are in my signature...

 

For subs:

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_67934_Hifonics-BRX1600.1D.html x2

^what I chose for the rear of my car^

 

For Fronts:  I'd prefer a 4 channel but that's all up to you...Here is a good 2 channel...leaves room to upgrade...

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_67927_Hifonics-BRX160.2.html

 

or...

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_44492_Hifonics-ZRX1000.4.html

^what I chose for the front of my car^

 

...having xtra power overhead, means a lot when it comes to feeding your mid's clean power, meaning you wont have to turn the amp "level/gain" as high to achieve desired loudness and clarity...just make sure your electrical is up to par!

Edited March 13, 2014 by THX_Elite

[lithium 358]

I personally am absolutely In love with Hifonics amps purchased directly from sonic electronix, they are super amps, well built, look nice, are very capable and are loved by A TON of people, not to mention are VERY reasonably priced you could get two of my amps and still have enough to get an amp for your fronts and money left over!!! ... my amps are in my signature...

 

For subs:

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_67934_Hifonics-BRX1600.1D.html x2

^what I chose for the rear of my car^

 

For Fronts:  I'd prefer a 4 channel but that's all up to you...Here is a good 2 channel...leaves room to upgrade...

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_67927_Hifonics-BRX160.2.html

 

or...

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_44492_Hifonics-ZRX1000.4.html

^what I chose for the front of my car^

 

...having xtra power overhead, means a lot when it comes to feeding your mid's clean power, meaning you wont have to turn the amp "level/gain" as high to achieve desired loudness and clarity...just make sure your electrical is up to par!

 

I think buying some higher quality used gear would be more appropriate. 

[THX_Elite 26]

ya,  I don't disagree with that by any means, these are just what I know to be reliable amps that are cea compliant and have nice and accurate rms ratings, at a good price, and run at cool temps.  I wouldn't mind running a RF1500BDCP but those are 700 bucks and at least 500 used.  There are many options out there and I am sure quite a few good sellers in this forum who might have better choices in amps for sale also. 

 

I have gone through many amps and the ones I found to be the best were RF and Hifonics as in term of lasting for ages.  Heck my brother has been using and abusing a Hifonics Titan for over 6 years now and it still runs cool and clean, where I have had many Fosgates' die on me in a lot shorter time, not to mention they run A LOT hotter.

 

Since I have found SSA though, I now have more desire to branch out into some different brand amps I have been seeing and researching!

 

I don't like tootin' horns on specific brands as "to each their own" is an important factor here, and just wanted to offer a person on a budget, like me, a suggestion I am familiar with is all.  I know there are a lot better amps out there, for sure

Edited March 13, 2014 by THX_Elite

[lithium 358]

watts are watts. i'm sceptical that you actually found differences in amps if you compared them correctly. changing amps in your situation likely wont improve a thing.

 

imo, OP should be looking at used or refurbed korean amps for the subs. Or if he is looking to save some space, ppi 1000.1 are super small and very solid. the ppi 900.4 or any of the variants using the same board (polk, hertz, etc) are also solid. 

 

i feel its important to point out that op will likely need to upgrade the alt in his car if he's running much more than 1500w (depending on the music he is listening to, of course). you also gain little output running more power comparably. 

Edited March 13, 2014 by lithium