More Sundown Issues Unfortunately

[Frostedflakejake 148]

So as some of you may know, for some reason some force doesn't want me to get my system together and up and running.

My thread explaining previous issues

Well i also had problems with my refurbished saz-3000d from db-r which i also started my own thread.

Sundown problems

SO the sundown came back in the mail today as planned and needless to say, i was very excited. Finally my system was going to be up and running!! I mean, what else could go wrong??? Well, as it currently seems the sundown was not probably repaired. Here's what happened:

I hooked up the amp probably as the manual indicated. I set the subsonic to about ~25 hz range. gain was zero. Bast boost was zero. subwoofer volume on HU all the way up. So i turned the gain to about 1/4 and turned the volume slowly up on the head unit and i was getting no output. So i turned the bass boost up a little and then it went into protect mode. keep in mind the volume on the head unit was about 7 at this time. So i messed around with gain and bass boost settings trying different combos (boost zero, gain up, gain zero, boost up, all sorts of things). Now unlike before i sent the amp to db-r, i could get the BTL to move! But just a little little bit. i couldn't really even hear it, but with my finger tips on the dust cap i could feel it. SO whenever i tried to get any realistic output, the amp would go into protect mode. So i un-hooked the speaker cable and everything went fine then. I used a DMM to estimate the output to around 2000 watts on a 35hz test tone at HU volume 20. With the sub hooked up again, it went into protect mode at volume level 6. so THEN i decided to check the grounds and noticed my ground point was a body ground, not a chassis ground. so i connected that bolt straight to the chassis and decided to test everything again! The same story happened except for after the second time the amp went into protect after the upgraded ground, it stayed in protect. Its doing exactly what it did before i sent it back to db-r. With everything unhooked (RCA's and speaker cable) the amp still goes straight into protect. no matter what i do straight into protect. I even tested it with some 4 gauge power and ground wires i use for my alpine 3522.

This is what db-r had to say about my 3000:

It has some bad outputs. I see that before refurbing it had same problem, so I was very cautious with it this time. I am pretty sure I found the problem. When I went to turn the volume up just a little on the bench I heard a little pop sound inside (like electrical arcing) so I turned it off and looked really good for anything shorting or broken and I noticed that these 2 coils, right in front of the relays, the factory had installed them too close together and they had been rubbing each other and causing a short from one side of the output banks to the other before the relays. I put a piece of heavy plastic wedged in between the 2 and siliconed it in place and now no more problems (so far) will test it for a while this morning on the batteries at higher volume to make sure it is now stable.

I have a few things to say about this. And please try to understand, this is my only experience with sundown. It seems like this amp missed a quality control check?? He even said that it left the factory like that. So do they test the amps before sending them out? I assume they do and mine just missed the ticket.. and then i'm assuming some guy bought it, had my problem, and sent it back. Then it appears that db-r missed this problem and sent it to me when i purchased it from db-r. THEN even after sending it back to db-r, it appears the problem still isn't fixed. Now i'm not saying that db-r didn't test the hell out of this amp after i sent it to them. I'm just saying it doesn't function properly. I don't see how i could have ever harmed it any way. To make sure there isn't some problem on my end, i'm either going to borrow a buddies amp or have my fathers friend who works at Bose take a look at it. Needless to say, my father and i both believe that there is no way we could have harmed it.

So i hate to have bad feelings and i like to think i handle these situations pretty well, but it's getting pretty hard to keep my faith in Sundown. In all honestly, i hope i'm doing something wrong on my end which i'll figure out within this week. If i have been doing everything properly, which i think i have, i'm not sure what i want to do. I know for DAMN sure i don't want to pay to ship this thing back to db-r AGAIN. the fact that i had to pay $30 to ship it back to them for a mistake they made in the first place is atrocious and i'll be deeply saddened if they make me do so again. If the amp is indeed faulty due to means outside of my control, i'm not sure if i want to see it again which sucks cause i don't know if they have another saz-3000d laying around or if they would even be willing to hand it over as an exchange! But as of right now, i'm unsure if i want that one back even if they fix it. Maybe i can get a refund? Hell they will make money if they do since i got it on some sort of sale (%10 or %20 i think). I really, really hope it doesn't come to that point because i want a damn Sundown! After all this work i want to see what these bad boys can do! I haven't had the chance!

So if anyone has actually read all this, does anyone have any advice? At all?

Thanks for reading

[ssh 924]

Sorry to hear all your problems. Have you talked to Jacob from sundown at all?

[CrazyKenKid 64]

it looks like you keep getting some dumb luck I am sorry to hear that

now onto the testing bit, i assume the way they test amps is they test 1 in ever 10 or 100 or so that comes out of production and i don't think they spends hours testing 1 in 10 or 100

so i guess your amp is the exception also keep in mind this is a reburb and amps are hard to fix due to all the small parts and if you miss 1 it could lead to more issues basically it is tedious work but it has to get done and getting it done correctly isn't an easy task!

now onto the actual issue... if this was the case for all the amps (the saz3000 model) i am sure there would be more cases or a bunch of broken ones on ebay for sale.

other then that i feel for you and i am sure they are doing all the can but also keep in mind you purchased reburb not saying reburb is bad but it is just risky and remember you are lucky that db-r is a SUPER nice company with an awesome rep and they are taking care of you the whole way though most other company's give you like a 10 or 20 day warranty and by the time ppl get stuff install it is already to late and they are like screw you warranty is void you are on your own.

so ya i did read though the issue and man i am sorry to hear them all my heart goes out to you... (in an un-gay way that is lol)

[Julian 641]

I wouldn't worry too much, in comparison most car audio gear sent to normal stores has something like a 50% DOA. I know the guys at DB-r will get this sorted out for you, something similar happened to me with my Saz-3000d (it was someone at DB-r's fault, they soldered the power leads too long and it burnt up) but i packaged it badly and the RCA's were smashed and destroyed completely, DB-r fixed it free of charges for my hassle. Don't worry too much i don't think I've heard of a problem Jacob wasn't on in a matter of days trying to best please the customer.

[CrazyKenKid 64]

Sorry to hear all your problems. Have you talked to Jacob from sundown at all?

umm what would Jacob have to do with this sale? this is a db-r issue not Jacobs. plus right now i think he has a ton of stuff on his plate!

[Frostedflakejake 148]

Thanks for all the replies!

And i haven't talked to Jacob other than him telling me to contact db-r the first round of the issue. For the most part i was talking to Chris i believe.

And yeah i was a little heated before, it's just so frustrating after all this time of trying to get my BTL to move!

You guys are right about buying a refurbished product, i should expect such problems. Now it may take me a few more hours to calm down to the point of wanting to pay $30 to have this shipped back. ha. And just the turn around time sucks since it takes 5 business days to ship there. So i'll give them another chance and i mean hey, i could have done something wrong too! I'm human as well as they are.

and to CrazyKenKid, i don't know about you, but i would never spent $600 on an amplifier or any electronic with a 10 or 20 day warranty. hahaha

[ssh 924]

Didn't read previous post about being refurb, my bad

[CrazyKenKid 64]

lol i don't buy reburb period but on ebay that is what i HAVE seen and also heard of from other ppl!

and yes vent it all out and NO you shouldn't expect that ALL the time and not esspecially form db-r!

[dvalue 17]

If it's any consolation, I ordered a refurb sax125.2 from, and has been working great ever since. Both Chris and Jacob are great guys and will get you taken care of.

(very OT: posting from an iPad my mom got for free)

[Cthedinger 2]

Just so you know hris (db-r) buys all of the broken amps that come back to jacob for dirt cheap and fixes them. So in almost all cases when you buy a refurb from chris it has been broken some how before. Chris it seems is a little backed up right now due to all the problems with the stetsom amps he has sold, they keep breaking and getting sent back to him since they are still under warranty. So give him a little break, i know all the problems you have been having and it sucks to hear about all of them. But with the sundown amp that is the chances you take with buying a refurb from them. I guaranty you will have a working amp soon, he may have accidentally missed something when he was repairing it the last time.

[Duran 387]

Jacob tests all the amps before he sends them out, every one.

[aimone 4]

ok this thread has got me kind of scared now....cause im shipping 2 saz1500's to db-r in the morning....after reading your problems man it makes me wonder why there would be problems like this. and how chris could "miss" something because from what he told me and i quote "he doesnt just fix whats wrong he does a complete reuild not half assed work". so how could shit like this happen if its a "complete rebuild"? cause i could save my self the headache and cash and get it done locally for half the price and by a guy with 25 yrs expierience. but im having faith im db-r and taking my fellow ssa guys advice and going thru db-r

[The enD 467]

I say test your installation. But I don't know if you are willing to put another amp in that car, hope nothing bad happens(if it happens) to that amp and its protections are working 100% .

And try that Sundown in another car, just swap with already working amp in that install.

[Kanaworm$ 292]

Try not to let 1 lemon get you down! I understand the frustration. Try the other amp to rule out any installations issues that may have occured. Always a good thing to troubleshoot all wiring when things like this happen. Never know when something my have got pinched or shorted when putting the vehicle back together again.

I'm sure Chris will take care of everything for you. Just be patient a little longer.

[sundownz 197]

Any repair shop can have an amp that gets sent out and may end up needing more work. If dB-R wasn't the best repair shop around I wouldn't use them - needless to say this is rare.

If Chris missed something he will take care of it for you. It is frustrating I'm sure - but also has nothing to do with Sundown as a company.

[Frostedflakejake 148]

Yeah within this week i'm going to try to test another amp on the wiring and test the sundown in another car. So far though it looks like my setup is okay after some DMM stuff but the only real way to assess it is to test it! And my guess is that Chris' fix didn't really fix. Either that or another problem evolved out of the sundown! I very much doubt that he did anything half-ass to send my way. He probably doesn't want to ever see my 3000 again like i never want to see that protection light again.

[Notorious on mobile 0]

You're really not lucky on this one.

Sorry for you.

It's the first topic like that I've read on db-r. These guys are human, after all !

I'm sure they will take good care of you. They don't want to have bad rep.

Cross your fingers!!

[sundownz 197]

Yeah within this week i'm going to try to test another amp on the wiring and test the sundown in another car. So far though it looks like my setup is okay after some DMM stuff but the only real way to assess it is to test it! And my guess is that Chris' fix didn't really fix. Either that or another problem evolved out of the sundown! I very much doubt that he did anything half-ass to send my way. He probably doesn't want to ever see my 3000 again like i never want to see that protection light again.

He does test them before shipment but it is amazing what can happen between the shipper and the customer... we test ALL of our amps and subs and have stuff arrive to the customer not working occasionally. It is bizarre... but happens.

[Frostedflakejake 148]

He does test them before shipment but it is amazing what can happen between the shipper and the customer... we test ALL of our amps and subs and have stuff arrive to the customer not working occasionally. It is bizarre... but happens.

i'm really relieved to hear that! I doubted that Chris didn't test the amp properly and i was more afraid of the fact that i had some freakish way harmed the product.

I'll probably contact db-r tonight

[sundownz 197]

dB-R has their own forum too guys :

dB-r Electronics Forums - Index

Would be more appropriate to post there.

[Frostedflakejake 148]

Oh! I was not aware of the db-r page. I'm very sorry about that.

If somebody on the upper end could move this the db-r section that would be great!! Thanks!

[dB-r 2]

Tested this particular amp for about 3 hours on the bench just to be sure it was good to go and it worked flawlessly. You really need to check your speaker wires and coils etc. Not saying the amp couldn't have some other problem other than what we fixed, it could, it is after all just a piece of consumer electronics, built on an assembly line in Korea probably by children.... So anything could happen you wouldn't believe some of the things I have seen come in here straight from the factory.... Do check everything in your install well, usually when outputs fail repeatedly in someones amp and we end up warrantying it like 3-5 times for the customer (loosing our ass on it BTW almost not worth doing at some point) it turns out to be they have a bad woofer coil they didn't know about, even on brand new woofers it's possible, or a screw through a speaker wire somewhere, speaker wire stuck too far through a push in terminal on the speaker and shorting to the basket, etc. Check it good, and no need to post this kind of crap on these forums, it really is only to start shit it serves no other purpose, even suggesting that we didn't fix your amp is just overly completely stooopidly ridiculous, ask the hundreds of happy dB-r refurb customers on this message board, maybe that will "ease" your mind a little bit. We have a system for you to use if you have problems here on our website: http://www.db-r.com/cs/ please use it. Sorry if I seem a little "pissed", it's just that we are so damned good at repairing these things that it almost always turns out to be the customers fault, and when I see posts like this one discussing whether we actually fixed your amp or not or ever tested it before sending it back to you, it really pisses me off. You see how many people have come to our defense here, it's because we have done them right, we don't screw people over, you can STOP worrying about that. I think just the fact that I am willing to come here in public and give you hell about this should be enough proof to you that we are not out to screw nobody over.

[dB-r 2]

After re-reading your post, it really does look like you have a bad subwoofer. Just to give you some REAL incentive to be sure your woofer and wiring isn't problem:

SAZ-3000D Out of Warranty Rebuild Cost = $200-$300

I suggest you check that woofer and all that wiring very well, unlike some companies dB-r WILL refuse to keep warrantying amps over and over for customers if we believe the customer is doing something non-standard, not within operating specifications and/or limits of the amplifier or if we think the customer has a serious install problem.

[Duran 387]

Try not to let 1 lemon get you down! I understand the frustration. Try the other amp to rule out any installations issues that may have occured. Always a good thing to troubleshoot all wiring when things like this happen. Never know when something my have got pinched or shorted when putting the vehicle back together again.

I'm sure Chris will take care of everything for you. Just be patient a little longer.

I like lemons

[deernet 6]

I also say to put the amp into a known working system and try it out. It definitely SOUNDS like an install issue to me. That would be a surefire way to rule out any other problems with your system, just put it into a known working system and see what happens. Although, if something is wrong with your setup, the damage may already be done...

Also, I wouldn't be so quick to lay the blame on DB-R. I've personally never used them, but have heard nothing but good things about them.