Center Channel

[Randal Johnson 544]

Has anyone ever put an center channel in a late 90s model Chevy / GMC ??? Truck or SUV (same dash literally where the defroster vents are concerned) ...

I know there will be ALOT of work to go into this ... most likely will never happen, but, you never know...

I'm not really concerned about it helping or hurting my stage and image at this time ...

I'm just interested to see if it has been done ... I'm considering either a 5.25 or 6.5 driver (full range) ...

Thanks in advance ...

[Kanaworm$ 292]

No, but tuned in for you to be the first

[jcshort 1]

i have used a center channael before in a few sq cars i did helped the sound quit well a pair of 4in or 5.25 work good.. i did once build a custom dash that had 4 6.5 componets that rocked

[Randal Johnson 544]

I'm just thinking that building a small enclosure in the dash (not anything above the dash) in this application will be complicated ... and still have some practical use of the defroster ... Guess I will know more once I get the dash out ...

[Randal Johnson 544]

No, but tuned in for you to be the first

Thanks Bro ... No pressure huh ...

[Randal Johnson 544]

I'm seriously thinking that this is going to call for me to go to a junkyard and get me a extra dash to practice on ...

[jcshort 1]

I'm seriously thinking that this is going to call for me to go to a junkyard and get me a extra dash to practice on ...

do you have the old style dash that has the 3 piece radio or the one that has the din and a half radio

[Tirefryr 1,742]

Throw some in there simply for psycho-acoustics. It's worked for many SQ competitors.

[///M5 2,833]

Throw some in there simply for psycho-acoustics. It's worked for many SQ competitors.

And further defines the problem in SQ competitions.

As always, it depends on what your goals are. Personally if you are doing it, you might as well move your mids up high on both pillars and make a center pod so that they are all at the same level. And then of course I'd only use it for movies which I don't watch in a car so the reasoning is dubious. Of course for some reason you also seem to use rears which is equally as dubious so I say go for it if it makes you happy.

[Impious 1,476]

Would you be using a processor capable of processing in a true center channel?

If not, I would say not a good plan to add a center.

If so, I would say mmmmmaybe. Main thing to remember is that with a true center, a significant portion of the sound comes from the center speaker(s). So it's important to have the same capabilities in the center speaker as you do in the left and right fronts. Meaning don't use a smaller speaker as it will kill the midbass.

Guy the lives close to me has an MS8 running Logic7 surround. I listened to the system a couple times in a couple different tunings. First time I heard it the center was way too prominent and anchored everything too much to the center, additionally he had 8" mids in the doors for left & right but only a 5.25" in the center....midbass was less than stellar (the giant 8's in the doors were doing very little to add to the midbass) and the system overall IMO sounded better in standard stereo. Later he changed the level matching between L/C/R to make the L/R more prominent and did some other retuning and it sounded and imaged much better but IIRC it wasn't significantly better than standard stereo. IIRC the stage was a lot wider in stereo but a bit deeper in L7 mode, and I'd rather have more width than a bit more depth. That was last summer, so I don't recall everything exactly other than listening to the system didn't make me crave having a center. Standard stereo seems to work just as well for me.

[///M5 2,833]

I have L7 and a center in my current vehicle and no matter how much dinking around it NEVER sounds better in L7.

[Randal Johnson 544]

do you have the old style dash that has the 3 piece radio or the one that has the din and a half radio

EDIT: the kick pannels are now back to stock and the 6.5 drivers are now in the doors ...

Work not complete yet so no pics to post yet ... sorry guys ...

[Randal Johnson 544]

Throw some in there simply for psycho-acoustics. It's worked for many SQ competitors.

Throw some in there simply for psycho-acoustics. It's worked for many SQ competitors.

And further defines the problem in SQ competitions.

As always, it depends on what your goals are. Personally if you are doing it, you might as well move your mids up high on both pillars and make a center pod so that they are all at the same level. And then of course I'd only use it for movies which I don't watch in a car so the reasoning is dubious. Of course for some reason you also seem to use rears which is equally as dubious so I say go for it if it makes you happy.

Would you be using a processor capable of processing in a true center channel?

If not, I would say not a good plan to add a center.

If so, I would say mmmmmaybe. Main thing to remember is that with a true center, a significant portion of the sound comes from the center speaker(s). So it's important to have the same capabilities in the center speaker as you do in the left and right fronts. Meaning don't use a smaller speaker as it will kill the midbass.

Guy the lives close to me has an MS8 running Logic7 surround. I listened to the system a couple times in a couple different tunings. First time I heard it the center was way too prominent and anchored everything too much to the center, additionally he had 8" mids in the doors for left & right but only a 5.25" in the center....midbass was less than stellar (the giant 8's in the doors were doing very little to add to the midbass) and the system overall IMO sounded better in standard stereo. Later he changed the level matching between L/C/R to make the L/R more prominent and did some other retuning and it sounded and imaged much better but IIRC it wasn't significantly better than standard stereo. IIRC the stage was a lot wider in stereo but a bit deeper in L7 mode, and I'd rather have more width than a bit more depth. That was last summer, so I don't recall everything exactly other than listening to the system didn't make me crave having a center. Standard stereo seems to work just as well for me.

Thank you guys for the great comments ...

I do not want this thread to turn into a Sound Quality debate ...

All I wanted to know is if this has ever been done before so I could possible see the outcome and something to go by ...

M5/ you are not going to like it no matter how I set it up ... I know that already.

Thank you Impious,

Unfortunately, I can't afford a processor, got too much other stuff needed first ...

If I set it up it would be only to enhance the center I have now and keep the WIDE width I have now using the rears.

The rears pull my stage back just enough you can tell it only on some songs, but one 6.5 in the center should make deep male voices stay on the dash and not drift down to the door drivers ...

So for now it would be a mono channel off one of the amps in stereo if that make sense ...

[Impious 1,476]

Without the necessary processing, IMO it would be more of a hindrance than an aid. I know you have (had) pretty minimal processing....adding a center channel to that type of setup is probably not going to work well just based of off general acoustic principles. Or at the very least it will be very difficult to get right.

For starters you would have to make sure all 3 speakers were equidistant (or very close thereto) otherwise the time arrival is going to be off. Second, from the drivers seat you are going to have left-side info coming from the center of the vehicle and far right info also coming from the center of the car.....that's going to hinder the width and proper image placement significantly. That's before we consider the possible constructive/destructive interference it could introduce into the frequency response and such.

Good intentions. I just think that's the wrong method of achieving your goals....atleast without having the proper processing.

Are you trying to get a more solid center after moving your mids to the doors? Easiest way to achieve that is with time alignment, which I don't think you have/had. But really it would make a world of difference. Time alignment and even FR from both sides of the vehicle (independently) will take care of a large portion of the center image ques. Ofcourse you would have a one-seater then. But that's the price of mids in the doors.

[Randal Johnson 544]

I have no additional processing ... honnestly, don't want it either ...

Moving my mids to the doors (stock locations) along with my rears helped out my stage by making it seem to be COMPLETELY across the dash with width beyond the mirrors. but kinda draws the stage and image (depth) closer to the listener(s) ...

With just a little help from the center, hopefully will correct this and make the center stronger in the process ...

I do not want the center (operating at very low power) to over power the left and right channels (at all), so I do not see a BIG problem with messing up left and right separation.

[Randal Johnson 544]

Has anyone ever put an center channel in a late 90s model Chevy / GMC ??? Truck or SUV (same dash literally where the defroster vents are concerned) ...

Hmmm, guess no one has tried this yet ... Guess I will try it out and see what will happen ...

May help, may not, never know until you try ...

Ont thing is 4 sure, I'm going to a junkyard and find me a test dummy ...

Thank you guys for all the Great comments !!!

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

What you are wanting to do is not a center channel. Even if you had correct processing you would be hard pressed to even find music that is 5.1 beside of course movies.

Now if you are looking for someone who has put speakers in a dash, I have done several 4 packs in 2000 body style Chevy trucks and a few boxes

[Randal Johnson 544]

What you are wanting to do is not a center channel. Even if you had correct processing you would be hard pressed to even find music that is 5.1 beside of course movies.

Now if you are looking for someone who has put speakers in a dash, I have done several 4 packs in 2000 body style Chevy trucks and a few boxes

I thought that if it goes in the dead front center of the dash, it was called a center channel ... please explain ...

2000 chevy trucks are fairly easier than late 90s ... the defroster vents are TOTALY different ...

I wish you could drive up to the USACI Event in Jackson in August ... I could show you exactly what I'm wanting to do with this truck ...

[///M5 2,833]

Center channel implies processing. And mono isn't processing. Same with rears though.

[Randal Johnson 544]

Same with rears though.

Without rears, how do you get the much needed rear ambience effect in the vehicle ?? It has to be there ... correct ??

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

No, 99.99 percent of all music is stereo(left and right). No proper sq system(purely for music) uses rear channels.

The best analogy is a live concert. It would sound really funny having speakers behind you because the stage is in front of you. A proper front stage can "separate" music just as if you are sitting at a live stage you can tell that the lead singer is midstage and the drums might be stage left and a piano might be stage right with your eyes closed.

The only sq vehicle I gave been in with rear fill was alpine's x5 back in 2005 but it utilized their F1 system that is set up to play Dolby digital 7.1. And even then the rears only came on for movies

[Tirefryr 1,742]

Ideally, there is no "rear ambience." That would simply be a reflection, something you don't want. Of course if you find a judge(s) who like this, it's better for you.

[Randal Johnson 544]

No, 99.99 percent of all music is stereo(left and right). No proper sq system(purely for music) uses rear channels.

The only sq vehicle I gave been in with rear fill was alpine's x5 back in 2005 but it utilized their F1 system that is set up to play Dolby digital 7.1. And even then the rears only came on for movies

So Todd Crowder, Mark Eldridge, Gary Biggs, guys like that do not use rears in their vehicles ?? Hmm ... OK thanks bro ...

What about 2010 USACI WF Champions Johnny neal and Herman Smith ??

What about the Speakerworks Grand National you guys talk so highly of ... We all know there was rear drivers in that vehicle ...

Ideally, there is no "rear ambience." That would simply be a reflection, something you don't want.

If you have it in a IMAX theatre, why shouldn't it be in your vehicle ?? Wouldn't be the same if it was missing ...

Of course if you find a judge(s) who like this, it's better for you.

Guess I'm in luck ... MECA and USACI judges seem to be really impressed with it ...

[Tirefryr 1,742]

Ideally, there is no "rear ambience." That would simply be a reflection, something you don't want.

I you have it in a IMAX theatre, why shouldn't it be in your vehicle ?? Wouldn't be the same if it was missing ...

DO you sit in your truck to watch movies? Are you competing in the "best theater experience" class of "SQ" ocmpetitions?

. . . Because a theater is used for viewing movies and their sound systems are set up to reproduce sound recorded for movies, not music. Movies are not recorded in stereo, there are microphones surrounding the entire set or it is processed in via computer during editing. It's already been mentioned that music is recorded in stereo aside from DVDA or CDA, but good luck finding the stuff.

Nobody is saying you can not do it, and others have with success, but we get into the objective versus subjective debate yet again, like always and any time you bring judging and human ears into the equation, all objectivity goes out the window.

[nem 2,019]

Have you heard Richard's car? He does everything with delays so it sounds like everything is in front of you.