New FL guy

[sexterra 10]

Came here after looking around the forums searching for guidance on my new build.

I recently came to the realization that my kickers and alpines were just enough to make me hungry for better sound, and aren't cutting it for me anymore.

So its time to start planning and collecting parts for an upgrade.

I drive a 2005 Xterra SE. Im looking to get a good bit louder, while maintaining pretty good sound quality. Not really any aspirations of competing.

Current build:

Pioneer AVH P3200BT H/U

Kicker Zx700.5 with 4ga power and grounds

Alpine SPR17c (rear doors)

Alpine SPR69c (front doors)

Kicker comp 12's (2) in a sealed box (i think around 5 cubes and filled)

Planned build:

Big 3 w/ 0 gauge

Crescendo PWX 6.5" (4, one in each door)

Crescendo Ft1 tweets (2 for now, in the dash)

Active cross over for tweeters (suggestions?)

Massive Audio NX4 (tweets on front channels, and PWX running paralleled per side on rear channels)

Massive Audio N3

SSA Icon 18 (deciding between sealed or ported and tuned to 30Hz)

Questions I have:

1. To run these 2 amps, will i have to do electrical upgrades?

2. Is my plan to run the tweets and 6.5s on the NX4 feasible. Basically, can I run different impedance on different channels without blowing/ being detrimental to my amp? (I will be getting the FT1s in 4 ohm so theyd be running at 4 ohm per side at 100 watts each on the front channel. The 6.5s will be 4 ohms, so running two parrallel per side on the rear channel will be 2ohms per side at 200watts.)

Thanks in advance for any responses and help!

[ssh 924]

If you want any semblance of sound quality then ditch the Crescendo gear.

Next comes down to install location, limitations budget, depth, size, etc.

For some reason there is a big trend in Florida to use super-tweeters. Perhaps one ignorant person did it, and the rest followed suit.

Edited November 9, 2012 by stefanhinote

[ssh 924]

Oh and welcome to the forum.

[StreetLegal 119]

Welcome to ssa.

[///M5 2,833]

And indeed those drivers do not meld together. You'd be better off keeping what you have. The sub upgrade will be nice though.

[sexterra 10]

Next comes down to install location, limitations budget, depth, size, etc.

For some reason there is a big trend in Florida to use super-tweeters. Perhaps one ignorant person did it, and the rest followed suit.

Install location would be preferably stock with a spacers and/or mount for the front holes. Im trying to avoid doing and fiberglassing to keep time and cost down. So in the front 6x9s would be biggest I could do, and in the back 6.5s. Budget limitations for the entire project would beunder 2000. Prefferably under 1500.

Whats wrong with supertweets? Granted the only ones I have heard were the riciculous Seleniums used to get over an SPL setup so I wasnt exactly worried about their SQ but just being some semblance of a high frequency. I figured running two of the FTs wouldnt be so bad.

And indeed those drivers do not meld together. You'd be better off keeping what you have. The sub upgrade will be nice though.

Hmm, all I've heard is good things about crescendo. What about them in your opinion would make them worse than what I currently have?

And since I'm definitely looking to upgrade, what might you recommend in a similar price range? I have been considering the Skar VXI65s or waiting on the Mezzo components that they just announced.

[ssh 924]

There isn't any reason to use a super-tweeter in your car unless your into SPL, and don't care about any quality of sound.

The Crescendo super-tweeters look nice, so you presume they also sound nice. That isn't the case. Their frequency response leaves much to be desired, and the bandwidth is limited.

I doubt anyone is going to recommend anything Skar related. The owner has proved to be a sketchy conniving asshat, and he doesn't know jack about speakers. Not a good combination IMO.

Edited November 9, 2012 by stefanhinote

[///M5 2,833]

Nothing is wrong with a super tweeter, but they make no sense in a car. If you were running them in a 4 way + then I could see it, but mixed with a pseudo pro audio mid you are going to have one hell of a big empty spot.

You need to choose your compromise. Getting loud up high isn't the problem. It's midbass and midrange you have to work on. The mids you chose won't do both either. If you run them together you are stuck with huge holes.

Oh, the Skar's are a bigger joke. Way!

[sexterra 10]

Well this is why i joined here. Thanks for the input.

So if supertweets and pro audio is out. I guess that means ill be going for a good set of components.

You need to choose your compromise. Getting loud up high isn't the problem. It's midbass and midrange you have to work on. The mids you chose won't do both either. If you run them together you are stuck with huge holes.

What would be your recommendation for a mid-high setup that could balance out the 18", will get decently loud and is somewhere between $100 and $200 per set.

[ricksi30 923]

What would be your recommendation for a mid-high setup that could balance out the 18", will get decently loud and is somewhere between $100 and $200 per set.

Running multiple comp sets isn't the best idea either. What is your total budget for speakers?

[sexterra 10]

Trying to keep the speakers under $400 total, which is half the reason i was looking into the crescendos (since all of that would have been like $230).

[Randal Johnson 544]

Welcome to SSA

[SS Teacher 177]

Welcome to SSA, I would suggest you don't have any rear speakers and use that budget for better front speakers. No one has ever sat in the front of my car and complained the front stage wasn't loud enough.

P.S. I am from Florida and I have no idea why people have 16 speakers fiber-glassed into their front doors. On behalf of all the non-ridiculous front speaker builds in the state I apologize, and on a side note I also know how to vote. We have nice beaches!

[pmureika 31]

[sexterra 10]

Welcome to SSA, I would suggest you don't have any rear speakers and use that budget for better front speakers. No one has ever sat in the front of my car and complained the front stage wasn't loud enough.

P.S. I am from Florida and I have no idea why people have 16 speakers fiber-glassed into their front doors. On behalf of all the non-ridiculous front speaker builds in the state I apologize, and on a side note I also know how to vote. We have nice beaches!

None in the rear, why? Im currently missing one (blew my type R 6.5) and the people in the back feel blown away by the crappy 12s i have in the hatch now. I cant imagine theyd enjoy just getting slammed by an 18.

Yeah, dont really get it either, Im all for loud, but thats just non-sensical. And yeah, knowing how to vote is great, apparently were in the minority there. Love the beaches, but wish I could take my car out on more of them than just Daytona.

I was considering a set of CDT CL-61A.2-25 PRO for the rears, since theyre 150w rms @ 2 ohm, so i could actually get alot out of the NX4 I plan on buying

Opinions on this^ since most of my other speaker ideas have been shot down

[sexterra 10]

And thanks for all the welcomes!

[SS Teacher 177]

The topic of rear speakers or "rear fill" have been posted on many, many times. Which set of components is also a hot topic on this forum. If you haven't tried the search function yet, you might want to; some people have luck with it, others don't. You might want to consider starting a new thread on the component system that might be a good match for you, unless you want to go active- but that takes a whole lot more effort. Good luck!

[sexterra 10]

Search doesnt really work for looking up CDT speakers since CDT is three letters and can't be searched on this forum.

I have read a bunch of good stuff about them for SQ though, and at 150w i don't see how they couldn't be pretty damn loud. I also really like that theyre 2 ohm so i can get more out of my amp, and they can take it.

I guess Id just like to know the opinions of people who own them, and what there listening preferences tend to be.

Personally i listen to a lot of electronic music so thats mostly to the subs and upper midrange and highs, but I still like to have a good bit of mid-bass for metal and some country that i listen to.

[///M5 2,833]

What would be your recommendation for a mid-high setup that could balance out the 18", will get decently loud and is somewhere between $100 and $200 per set.

Doesn't exist, although I expect my idea of "balance out" and yours are different. Think about it, it is by far the easiest to get a sub loud than anything else. Why would you then think you can take 80% of your budget and put it in your sub/s and have things balance out?

None in the rear, why? Im currently missing one (blew my type R 6.5) and the people in the back feel blown away by the crappy 12s i have in the hatch now. I cant imagine theyd enjoy just getting slammed by an 18.

They aren't blown away by the crappy 12's, but by the lack of front stage. Rears are useless.

CDT's aren't your solution either. Step one is to pick your compromise so far I don't know what that is.

Search doesnt really work for looking up CDT speakers since CDT is three letters and can't be searched on this forum.

Then google search the forum

I have read a bunch of good stuff about them for SQ though, and at 150w i don't see how they couldn't be pretty damn loud. I also really like that theyre 2 ohm so i can get more out of my amp, and they can take it.

2ohms is a negative on front stage speakers, not a positive. You will indeed get more out of your amp, but that doesn't relate to output.

I guess Id just like to know the opinions of people who own them, and what there listening preferences tend to be.

Personally i listen to a lot of electronic music so thats mostly to the subs and upper midrange and highs, but I still like to have a good bit of mid-bass for metal and some country that i listen to.

If you want good midbass you are going to need more budget and to run active. Unless you are willing to pull your stage back and have the subs help in that portion of the frequency range.

[sexterra 10]

Doesn't exist, although I expect my idea of "balance out" and yours are different. Think about it, it is by far the easiest to get a sub loud than anything else. Why would you then think you can take 80% of your budget and put it in your sub/s and have things balance out?

They aren't blown away by the crappy 12's, but by the lack of front stage. Rears are useless.

CDT's aren't your solution either. Step one is to pick your compromise so far I don't know what that is.

How is $300 80% of a $1500 budget? im my math is right, thats about exactly 20% on subs... and if you count another $300-350 for the amp powering it then its still less than half the budget.

So yes, I would suppose we have different ideas of balance.

Lets say my compromise is moderate sound quality for the sake of volume.

Would CDTs or crescendo or anything for that matter be acceptable coupled with the 18?

Or should I just ditch any plans of even having speakers in my doors, get a nice heaphone splitter and get sweet headphones for everyone in the car and run the sub for bass?

Because basically what ive gathered so far is this:

Crescendo sucks.

Skar sucks and is run by a douschebag.

Super tweeters suck.

CDT isnt good enough.

Rear door speakers are worthless, not even sure why factory bothered putting any there to begin with.

And I need more money which I don't have.

So is there something I'm missing here?

[ricksi30 923]

So you have 750 to spend on your front stage?

[ssh 924]

Pretty funny stuff.

Let me bridge the gap.

An 18" subwoofer has a lot of cone area, so it produces a lot of output. In order for the front stage to be balanced with this output you need a lot of cone area--at least for the midbass - midrange region. The higher frequency range doesn't require much, so it's not an issue.

So basically you have a lot of cone area in the sub-bass region, and require a fair amount of cone area in the mid region to seek some balanced sound.

You aren't willing to fabricate your doors, so your severely limited to what the stock door panel can hold. This is where you compromise. No one is being an asshole to be an asshole.

Super-tweeters have crazy output for high frequency, but at the cost of bandwidth, and possibly sound quality. Your biggest issue or factor is the midbass - midrange, not high frequency.

Most component sets have mid drivers with a higher bandwidth to mate with their smaller tweeters, but they also more than likely sacrifice output for that bandwidth extension.

You can use some component set with a 6.5" speaker in the front (use an adapter from 6x8 to 6.5), it won't be balanced, but it might be enough for you.

Or go active, and if done right you'll be a lot closer to balanced.

For what it's worth I had an 18" ICON in a sealed enclosure, my front stage uses a 6.5"-7" driver for the mid region, and although it offers a lot more midbass output then most other setups the icon would still easily overwhelm it. So 99% of the time I had the icon turned down, so the overall sound was more balanced, and more enjoyable.

[sexterra 10]

yes, that is if i keep my current amp which is a kicker zx700.5 to run it.

can you define what it is you are referring to as front stage?

[ssh 924]

Speakers in the front make up your front stage.

[ricksi30 923]

Speakers in the front make up your front stage.

This^

And that amp will work just fine. With 750 I would get a Pioneer 80prs, and do an active front stage.