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supragod98

Bad news for the IA80.1

135 posts in this topic

cool story bro

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This seems like a good place for this. 

 

 

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As suggested, I'll start my post with the test's uncertainty. I've carefully calibrated each piece of equipment and considered every link in the chain and have come to a +/- 10,000w margin of error. That's close enough for a Podunk bass head like myself.

 

You guys keep saying "clamp" test. I assume half of you didn't even open the thread so I'll assume that half thinks it is a "clamp". Some of the rest of you might just be using that term to describe any "useless" end user's test of an amplifier's output. But for those who didn't read it or don't know, I used fixed resistance so that the voltage and current are in phase. As was mentioned...measuring voltage is pretty simple. The uncertainty of a simple (yet expensive) voltmeter is certainly nothing a hobbyist and others like him would consider bad enough to completely disregard any and all results.


With that said... I understand where you guys are coming from. I really do. But good lawd. How do you guys get out of bed in the morning before you validate the structural integrity of the floor using highly calibrated sonic something or another that's calibrated by something or another? Sheesh.

 

I realize that people use my results to make decisions or start arguments or whore them out. As such, I don't take them lightly; but at the same time... I don't get paid for this shit. This isn't my job and the onus of uncertainty is on the reader. Not me. I do the best with what I have and share my results. That's it. If you don't like or agree with my results, then do the damn tests yourself. Or ignore them. If you can't use the information in a responsible manner and with an appropriate number of grains of salt, then don't read them. Or if someone uses them, just say ol' T-Fade is a crackhead and move on with your life.

 

I'm just a dude. I'm not a scientist or engineer or even employed in the 12v industry. I'm an end user with more and better tools than most and I happen to be an amp whore. But I'm also an SPL competitor. So the only number that I *really* care about is the one on the TermLab. if I test an amp and get 3,000w, that power will do a certain number on the TermLab. If I test another amp and get 4,000w, that power will do a higher number on the TL. Consistently. Now.... does uncertainty matter here or does it matter that the "real" power is actually 1,473.245 watts and 1,732.436 watts? Nope. The one with more power was louder. Period. I've never, not once, tested an amp that made less power that was louder than another amp that made more. If my methods are so flawed and uncertainty so bad... that margin of error would certainly have shown itself by now because I do a TON of testing. But I suppose that could be coincidental. And I'm sure the TL not being calibrated just drives y'all nuts anyway.  

 

Anyway... the one thing I hate about my testing is not *knowing* the THD. It's objective and open to interpretation the way I do it by just showing and reading the wave. But most people with the faculties to log on to the internet can distinguish between round and square. People can judge for themselves. Because I promise... your subs will tell that tale.

 

While I'm on a roll with anecdotal evidence... I tested an amp recently using my "useless" method, flawed objectivity and incomplete or lack of understanding of metrology and the scientific method and shared my results with the owner. Then, he shared with me the end all, be all test report from the manufacturer of the amplifier using their trillion dollar machines and what'dya know? They were awfully similar. Within 3%. But hey... maybe I got lucky on that one.

 

About the OP... I'm sorry if you don't like the 80.1's output. I REtested it again today and got extremely similar 12v results. The only variable being +1vdc. The large disparity between "clean" and clipped is interesting. It makes a shit ton of power dirty (but useable). Your subs will hate you, but the power is there. I also tested it on 18v and the output scales up really well. Doesn't change my results or opinion of the amp from the original test, but it's nice to know my meter didn't catch any uncertainty gremlins overnight.

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Blablabla removed

 

About the OP... I'm sorry if you don't like the 80.1's output. I REtested it again today and got extremely similar 12v results. The only variable being +1vdc. The large disparity between "clean" and clipped is interesting. It makes a shit ton of power dirty (but useable). Your subs will hate you, but the power is there. I also tested it on 18v and the output scales up really well. Doesn't change my results or opinion of the amp from the original test, but it's nice to know my meter didn't catch any uncertainty gremlins overnight.

sigh.gifpopcorn2.gif

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As suggested, I'll start my post with the test's uncertainty. I've carefully calibrated each piece of equipment and considered every link in the chain and have come to a +/- 10,000w margin of error. That's close enough for a Podunk bass head like myself.

 

You guys keep saying "clamp" test. I assume half of you didn't even open the thread so I'll assume that half thinks it is a "clamp". Some of the rest of you might just be using that term to describe any "useless" end user's test of an amplifier's output. But for those who didn't read it or don't know, I used fixed resistance so that the voltage and current are in phase. As was mentioned...measuring voltage is pretty simple. The uncertainty of a simple (yet expensive) voltmeter is certainly nothing a hobbyist and others like him would consider bad enough to completely disregard any and all results.

With that said... I understand where you guys are coming from. I really do. But good lawd. How do you guys get out of bed in the morning before you validate the structural integrity of the floor using highly calibrated sonic something or another that's calibrated by something or another? Sheesh.

 

I realize that people use my results to make decisions or start arguments or whore them out. As such, I don't take them lightly; but at the same time... I don't get paid for this shit. This isn't my job and the onus of uncertainty is on the reader. Not me. I do the best with what I have and share my results. That's it. If you don't like or agree with my results, then do the damn tests yourself. Or ignore them. If you can't use the information in a responsible manner and with an appropriate number of grains of salt, then don't read them. Or if someone uses them, just say ol' T-Fade is a crackhead and move on with your life.

 

I'm just a dude. I'm not a scientist or engineer or even employed in the 12v industry. I'm an end user with more and better tools than most and I happen to be an amp whore. But I'm also an SPL competitor. So the only number that I *really* care about is the one on the TermLab. if I test an amp and get 3,000w, that power will do a certain number on the TermLab. If I test another amp and get 4,000w, that power will do a higher number on the TL. Consistently. Now.... does uncertainty matter here or does it matter that the "real" power is actually 1,473.245 watts and 1,732.436 watts? Nope. The one with more power was louder. Period. I've never, not once, tested an amp that made less power that was louder than another amp that made more. If my methods are so flawed and uncertainty so bad... that margin of error would certainly have shown itself by now because I do a TON of testing. But I suppose that could be coincidental. And I'm sure the TL not being calibrated just drives y'all nuts anyway.  

 

Anyway... the one thing I hate about my testing is not *knowing* the THD. It's objective and open to interpretation the way I do it by just showing and reading the wave. But most people with the faculties to log on to the internet can distinguish between round and square. People can judge for themselves. Because I promise... your subs will tell that tale.

 

While I'm on a roll with anecdotal evidence... I tested an amp recently using my "useless" method, flawed objectivity and incomplete or lack of understanding of metrology and the scientific method and shared my results with the owner. Then, he shared with me the end all, be all test report from the manufacturer of the amplifier using their trillion dollar machines and what'dya know? They were awfully similar. Within 3%. But hey... maybe I got lucky on that one.

 

About the OP... I'm sorry if you don't like the 80.1's output. I REtested it again today and got extremely similar 12v results. The only variable being +1vdc. The large disparity between "clean" and clipped is interesting. It makes a shit ton of power dirty (but useable). Your subs will hate you, but the power is there. I also tested it on 18v and the output scales up really well. Doesn't change my results or opinion of the amp from the original test, but it's nice to know my meter didn't catch any uncertainty gremlins overnight.

3% is absolutely unacceptable, I'm sure your ears can pick up the difference...

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As suggested, I'll start my post with the test's uncertainty. I've carefully calibrated each piece of equipment and considered every link in the chain and have come to a +/- 10,000w margin of error. That's close enough for a Podunk bass head like myself.

 

You guys keep saying "clamp" test. I assume half of you didn't even open the thread so I'll assume that half thinks it is a "clamp". Some of the rest of you might just be using that term to describe any "useless" end user's test of an amplifier's output. But for those who didn't read it or don't know, I used fixed resistance so that the voltage and current are in phase. As was mentioned...measuring voltage is pretty simple. The uncertainty of a simple (yet expensive) voltmeter is certainly nothing a hobbyist and others like him would consider bad enough to completely disregard any and all results.

With that said... I understand where you guys are coming from. I really do. But good lawd. How do you guys get out of bed in the morning before you validate the structural integrity of the floor using highly calibrated sonic something or another that's calibrated by something or another? Sheesh.

 

I realize that people use my results to make decisions or start arguments or whore them out. As such, I don't take them lightly; but at the same time... I don't get paid for this shit. This isn't my job and the onus of uncertainty is on the reader. Not me. I do the best with what I have and share my results. That's it. If you don't like or agree with my results, then do the damn tests yourself. Or ignore them. If you can't use the information in a responsible manner and with an appropriate number of grains of salt, then don't read them. Or if someone uses them, just say ol' T-Fade is a crackhead and move on with your life.

 

I'm just a dude. I'm not a scientist or engineer or even employed in the 12v industry. I'm an end user with more and better tools than most and I happen to be an amp whore. But I'm also an SPL competitor. So the only number that I *really* care about is the one on the TermLab. if I test an amp and get 3,000w, that power will do a certain number on the TermLab. If I test another amp and get 4,000w, that power will do a higher number on the TL. Consistently. Now.... does uncertainty matter here or does it matter that the "real" power is actually 1,473.245 watts and 1,732.436 watts? Nope. The one with more power was louder. Period. I've never, not once, tested an amp that made less power that was louder than another amp that made more. If my methods are so flawed and uncertainty so bad... that margin of error would certainly have shown itself by now because I do a TON of testing. But I suppose that could be coincidental. And I'm sure the TL not being calibrated just drives y'all nuts anyway.  

 

Anyway... the one thing I hate about my testing is not *knowing* the THD. It's objective and open to interpretation the way I do it by just showing and reading the wave. But most people with the faculties to log on to the internet can distinguish between round and square. People can judge for themselves. Because I promise... your subs will tell that tale.

 

While I'm on a roll with anecdotal evidence... I tested an amp recently using my "useless" method, flawed objectivity and incomplete or lack of understanding of metrology and the scientific method and shared my results with the owner. Then, he shared with me the end all, be all test report from the manufacturer of the amplifier using their trillion dollar machines and what'dya know? They were awfully similar. Within 3%. But hey... maybe I got lucky on that one.

 

About the OP... I'm sorry if you don't like the 80.1's output. I REtested it again today and got extremely similar 12v results. The only variable being +1vdc. The large disparity between "clean" and clipped is interesting. It makes a shit ton of power dirty (but useable). Your subs will hate you, but the power is there. I also tested it on 18v and the output scales up really well. Doesn't change my results or opinion of the amp from the original test, but it's nice to know my meter didn't catch any uncertainty gremlins overnight.

3% is absolutely unacceptable, I'm sure your ears can pick up the difference...

I was unaware people did "clamp tests" to measure the possible measure of power that can audibly be heard as a difference compared to the rating on the box.

 

IF that were true, then clamp tests would be the best method.

 

That means as along as the 9,600w amp can do +/- 2,000w, then it's fine.

That's your implication.  Seems irrational to me.

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As suggested, I'll start my post with the test's uncertainty. I've carefully calibrated each piece of equipment and considered every link in the chain and have come to a +/- 10,000w margin of error. That's close enough for a Podunk bass head like myself.

 

You guys keep saying "clamp" test. I assume half of you didn't even open the thread so I'll assume that half thinks it is a "clamp". Some of the rest of you might just be using that term to describe any "useless" end user's test of an amplifier's output. But for those who didn't read it or don't know, I used fixed resistance so that the voltage and current are in phase. As was mentioned...measuring voltage is pretty simple. The uncertainty of a simple (yet expensive) voltmeter is certainly nothing a hobbyist and others like him would consider bad enough to completely disregard any and all results.

With that said... I understand where you guys are coming from. I really do. But good lawd. How do you guys get out of bed in the morning before you validate the structural integrity of the floor using highly calibrated sonic something or another that's calibrated by something or another? Sheesh.

 

I realize that people use my results to make decisions or start arguments or whore them out. As such, I don't take them lightly; but at the same time... I don't get paid for this shit. This isn't my job and the onus of uncertainty is on the reader. Not me. I do the best with what I have and share my results. That's it. If you don't like or agree with my results, then do the damn tests yourself. Or ignore them. If you can't use the information in a responsible manner and with an appropriate number of grains of salt, then don't read them. Or if someone uses them, just say ol' T-Fade is a crackhead and move on with your life.

 

I'm just a dude. I'm not a scientist or engineer or even employed in the 12v industry. I'm an end user with more and better tools than most and I happen to be an amp whore. But I'm also an SPL competitor. So the only number that I *really* care about is the one on the TermLab. if I test an amp and get 3,000w, that power will do a certain number on the TermLab. If I test another amp and get 4,000w, that power will do a higher number on the TL. Consistently. Now.... does uncertainty matter here or does it matter that the "real" power is actually 1,473.245 watts and 1,732.436 watts? Nope. The one with more power was louder. Period. I've never, not once, tested an amp that made less power that was louder than another amp that made more. If my methods are so flawed and uncertainty so bad... that margin of error would certainly have shown itself by now because I do a TON of testing. But I suppose that could be coincidental. And I'm sure the TL not being calibrated just drives y'all nuts anyway.  

 

Anyway... the one thing I hate about my testing is not *knowing* the THD. It's objective and open to interpretation the way I do it by just showing and reading the wave. But most people with the faculties to log on to the internet can distinguish between round and square. People can judge for themselves. Because I promise... your subs will tell that tale.

 

While I'm on a roll with anecdotal evidence... I tested an amp recently using my "useless" method, flawed objectivity and incomplete or lack of understanding of metrology and the scientific method and shared my results with the owner. Then, he shared with me the end all, be all test report from the manufacturer of the amplifier using their trillion dollar machines and what'dya know? They were awfully similar. Within 3%. But hey... maybe I got lucky on that one.

 

About the OP... I'm sorry if you don't like the 80.1's output. I REtested it again today and got extremely similar 12v results. The only variable being +1vdc. The large disparity between "clean" and clipped is interesting. It makes a shit ton of power dirty (but useable). Your subs will hate you, but the power is there. I also tested it on 18v and the output scales up really well. Doesn't change my results or opinion of the amp from the original test, but it's nice to know my meter didn't catch any uncertainty gremlins overnight.

3% is absolutely unacceptable, I'm sure your ears can pick up the difference...

I was unaware people did "clamp tests" to measure the possible measure of power that can audibly be heard as a difference compared to the rating on the box.

 

IF that were true, then clamp tests would be the best method.

 

That means as along as the 9,600w amp can do +/- 2,000w, then it's fine.

That's your implication.  Seems irrational to me.

I was being sarcastic more than anything else. The 3% that his test was off from the manufacturer's test seems very acceptable to me. 3% is 300 watts which isn't very likely to make much of a difference even on a termlab. I also understand the concern that you guys have, but there's really no application of a 12v amplifier that requires the precision of the power output number to be higher than this. 

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This thread doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

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It never was going anywhere

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It never was going anywhere

Then close it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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