More midbass speaker selection

[Dexter Chaos 14]

How did you figure it will not play over 300 hz it stated its response is 36.5-2000hz? and yes I am listening but am being told but with no explanation. I respect most on here. thats why i am here.

[lithium 358]

How did you figure it will not play over 300 hz it stated its response is 36.5-2000hz? and yes I am listening but am being told but with no explanation. I respect most on here. thats why i am here.

 

I own them. 

 

look at any review or build log that uses them. no one runs them above 300hz. 

[Dexter Chaos 14]

i was told if I went with this woofer and a full range I would be ok. now I am not. what changed

[lithium 358]

i was told if I went with this woofer and a full range I would be ok. now I am not. what changed

m5 pointed out that the pioneer hu couldn't process the midbass + fullrange setup on page 1 of this thread. 

[lithium 358]

if you want to play around with an active 2 way then i suggest you take the sundown component set and try to make it sound better active than passive. once you figure that out then you're ready to build a real 2 way set up. maybe 1+ year down the line a 3 way if needed. 

[Dexter Chaos 14]

ok forget everything i have said in the last few hours. i want to start over. If I go with said CZ702 like alton has suggested and us the sub filter to control the SLS like he has previously stated he does. where would I connect my current sub stage. will it be ok to piggy back off the same connection and use the settings on my sub amp to control my woofers?

Edited April 16, 2014 by Dexter Chaos

[lithium 358]

ok forget everything i have said in the last few hours. i want to start over. If I go with said CZ702 like alton has suggested and us the sub filter to control the SLS like he has previously stated he does. where would I connect my current sub stage. will it be ok to piggy back off the same connection and use the settings on my sub amp to control my woofers?

well it seems like the cz702 is a bit strange but will still work. you will use the hu's subwoofer out for the midbass and the hu's mid out for the subwoofer. 

 

this assumes you're running the just a 2 way + sub in a midbass and fullrange set up. 

 

\\

 

 

you would also need to use the subwoofer amp's low pass filter. not a terrible compromise for using that unit. 

Edited April 16, 2014 by lithium

[Dexter Chaos 14]

Just to be clear the low pass filter on my amp would be the subsonic filter correct?

 

and any recommendations say in a 6.5 size full range to cover the 300hz and up mark.

 

i found these Eminence Beta-6A 6-1/2"

but they are a bit pricey any other suggestions.

[lithium 358]

Just to be clear the low pass filter on my amp would be the subsonic filter correct?

 

and any recommendations say in a 6.5 size full range to cover the 300hz and up mark.

 

i found these Eminence Beta-6A 6-1/2"

but they are a bit pricey any other suggestions.

 

 

no, a subsonic is a high pass filter. if you dont understand what crossovers are i recommend (again) that you take a step back. 

 

are you just googling random drivers now? stop, please. 

[Dexter Chaos 14]

just looking on parts express.

[altoncustomtech 773]

ok forget everything i have said in the last few hours. i want to start over. If I go with said CZ702 like alton has suggested and us the sub filter to control the SLS like he has previously stated he does. where would I connect my current sub stage. will it be ok to piggy back off the same connection and use the settings on my sub amp to control my woofers?

 

I think you misunderstood.  The full ranges are on the Highs channels, with the HPF set to 250hz.  The midbasses are on the mids channels, the HPF set to 63hz and the LPF set to 630hz the lowest it can go.  I'm using the LPF on the amplifier to cross it down to the ~250hz the midbasses need to be at to blend properly with the full ranges.  As Brendan mentioned it's not a bad compromise.  The subwoofer is on the sub channel with the HPF set to 31.5hz (using it as SSF) and the LPF is set to 40hz.

 

If you really want to use the SLS 8 for some serious midbass response you won't have much of a choice but to go with a full range for the highs.  Trust me that they play everything they're designed to beautifully as long as you install them on axis.  The only other option for using the SLS 8 is a 3 way setup like a 4" midrange and tweeter but you're DEFINITELY not ready for a 3 way active setup yet so you'll have to make a decision.  Either try out the 3" full ranges and do the work it will take to mount them properly or slide back down to a 6.5" and tweeter active setup and maximize the installation to get the response you're looking for.  With the SLS 8 and full range you cannot use the 80PRS as so many have pointed out now but the Clarion can do it with a little ingenuity but if you decided to do the 6.5" mid and tweeter the 80PRS will excel for you over the Clarion in that setup.

 

No matter which you decide to use you'll have to do everything you can to make sure the installation is as close to perfect as you can get it.  The SLS will not have good response and cause insane rattles if the door isn't deadened and braced properly.  You'll never get anywhere near satisfactory midbass from a 6.5" either if the same isn't done for it.  What have you done so far with your current installation to ensure the way its installed is giving it's best chance at the response you're looking for?  If you've not at least fully deadened the location they're installed and used a custom baffle for mounting then you've not even begun to get all you can from the components you have now.  I'm getting midbass I can feel in my chest and that moves pant legs from the 6.5" Bravox mids that are in my doors right now from doing just the custom baffle and about 50% of the sound deadening work that needs done.  I'll have to do a great deal more when I go to install the SLS's though if am to expect better performance from them.

[Dexter Chaos 14]

yes the 3-way set up has been put on hold. I am looking at 2 way as suggested.  I will run my sundown set active to get the hang of it. While i am doing this I will be making my door pods for the SLS and the 3 in full ranges as suggested. Thanks alton and Brandon sorry for causing the frustrations. Also I am ordering the clairon as also suggested for my 2 way set up. I plan on going to.

 

Not to cause more confusion but could I run passive filters and use any head unit?

[altoncustomtech 773]

Pretty much.  When you're running passive the crossover included with the speakers does the job of separating the signals to the appropriate driver.  The crossover capabilities of the 80PRS, CZ702 or any other active capable HU aren't required to do that job.

[///M5 2,833]

Just so that its clear to "M5" I understand that my head unit will not suffice. I  new this from before I even starting this thread. My thinking was I wanted to share what I currently had for comparisson reasons only, silly me. This is my thread I created and wanted to post MY units specs as well. I hope that your intellect and arrogance about audible noise is no reflection of who you are in real life just a mirage of how it comes across on the cpu screen. I inparticular came to this web site for everyones knowledge but you sir make it frustrating to learn sometimes.

It is only hard to learn when the student chooses to not try. Frustration shows you are starting to try, it is a good sign.

While i am doing this I will be making my door pods for the SLS and the 3 in full ranges as suggested. Thanks alton and Brandon sorry for causing the frustrations. Also I am ordering the clairon as also suggested for my 2 way set up. I plan on going to.

 

Not to cause more confusion but could I run passive filters and use any head unit?

Do NOT build a door pod for the SLS and a 3" FR. That won't work. If the 3"ers are not 100% on axis you will need a tweeter meaning you are back to a 3 way. That you aren't ready for. At the same time I would avoid using the SLS completely at the moment as integration is going to create so many compromises it will seriously jack your learning curve.

Personally I also wouldn't run that Clarion. The 80prs kills it for actual adjustments and learning. On top of that the crossovers that it "can" do even when used flipping the mid/sub are FAR from ideal for what you propose.

What you should do is run your current set active and determine what about the sound you don't like. From there it will be very easy to look at your mounting locations and come up with a solution. Starting with the SLS has fail written all over it.

[ohio45113 24]

frogcase2002 has one of those clarions and i hate the way it reads a flash drive. all scattered and random.. I no thats not what you looking at or using it for but I wouldnt buy it for that reason alone lol

[Dexter Chaos 14]

This is why I have been looking for other options. the mids with this set i had originally set to high and they sounded harsh to my ears. I thought it was the tweeters but was wrong.   I was able to determine this b/c of you and alton advising me to disconnect the speakers until I could pinpoint where the harsh sound was  coming from. I adjusted the passive crossover and gain on my amp to get it close but also found I had my bass level was turned all the way down so I adjusted it up. This is when I felt they sounded best to me. After a few weeks of listening now I feel this comp set can not keep up with my sub bass. I am running it off a PPI 900.4 only running two channels.  Also I feel these 6.5" are working extremely hard and have noticed that I have to turn it down on some songs because I hear noises from them, sorry not sure how to desribe it, but it isn't musical. Also Sundown is in alot the vehicles in my area and I am wanting an alternative to this. I normally don't like to follow the heard. Nothing against them just my choice.  So this is where I am at.

 

Now I just need guided in the correct diretion since I appear to not be after these last 2 pages of purchases and ideas.

 

please advise

[///M5 2,833]

First step is to determine the cause. It is ALWAYS best to learn with what you have. I'd start with processing and the speakers you have. "Harsh" isn't a determining factor that will lead towards a good driver recommendation. Of course, you can taper that and resolve it with the right processing so I'd start there.

[Dexter Chaos 14]

you a making me a frustrated sandwich!!!!

 

I do not have a harsh sound any longer. The problem I have is that it cannot keep up with my sub stage. When I increased my bass level, since it was at neg7, with my current head unit I was able to find a sound that I really enjoyed. also with some adjustment to the gain on the amp turning it down. I really enjoyed that warm feeling it gave with these adjustments at any volume level while sub stage was off. but you probably dont understand that either.  I have no idea what to tell you so you can help me.

[ncc74656 2]

if you are hearing excess noise from your 6.5 when you turn the bass back up I would assume you are giving full range to the mids, is that correct? does your current amp or head unit have a high pass filter on it so you can remove the >80hz frequencies from your mids?   even if you have a passive cross over if you are sending high amounts of bass to your mids/highs it will cause distortion at high volumes. I experienced this on my passive setups until I got a deck that could Xover these.

 

what M5 is trying to convey is to take things on your current setup one step at a time which is what it seems you are trying to do. in his previous post he is suggesting you utilize more processing vs replacing all your speakers. so if your deck is capable the next step would be to start EQing the mids/highs to balance them out and remove said distortion or unwanted sounds. once you know what frequencies are the problem you can start to change things (if needed) with the install to help boost performance.

 

if you buy new speakers out right you will not have a solid reference point to learn from. you know how your current setup responds so its best to play with what you have until you get a handle on things.

[altoncustomtech 773]

Keeping up with the sub stage is a little backward thinking.  A simple component set just isn't enough to keep up with almost any substage.  Too much of a difference in cone area and power for those little woofers to have any hope of actually keeping up with the subs.  For a balanced sound you set the gains on everything then turn the subs down to blend with the highs.  When you want more, as you obviously do, is when we get into the discussion that's been going on so far.

 

 

@NCC - There's a good chance he's already got the HPF set for the components.  He's simply pushing them to their limits trying to get more from them than they can deliver.  He can raise the HPF or use the EQ to tone the bass back a bit.  You're right, he's driving them past their limits and they'll soon get toasted if he doesn't watch it closely.  Using the EQ to tone the bass down a hair is the ideal way to go IMO.  It sounds like it's pretty close to giving full output with a little stress on the bass at that volume level.  One could turn the bass back a tad on the EQ to save the component mids and tap the sub up a notch or two to cover the lost output.  It's a trick I practiced a lot when I was installing for people.  They'd want to get it done as cheap as possible and HU's back then didn't have much of any crossovers built in.  The speakers were often factory and run off the HU regardless so getting much output was a balancing act.  I'd leave the subs off, adjust the bass and treble, or whatever adjustments were available, until it sounded pretty good and clear at high volumes then bring the subs up to compensate for the lack of bass from the rest of the speakers.

[Dexter Chaos 14]

if you are hearing excess noise from your 6.5 when you turn the bass back up I would assume you are giving full range to the mids, is that correct? does your current amp or head unit have a high pass filter on it so you can remove the >80hz frequencies from your mids?   even if you have a passive cross over if you are sending high amounts of bass to your mids/highs it will cause distortion at high volumes. I experienced this on my passive setups until I got a deck that could Xover these.

 

what M5 is trying to convey is to take things on your current setup one step at a time which is what it seems you are trying to do. in his previous post he is suggesting you utilize more processing vs replacing all your speakers. so if your deck is capable the next step would be to start EQing the mids/highs to balance them out and remove said distortion or unwanted sounds. once you know what frequencies are the problem you can start to change things (if needed) with the install to help boost performance.

 

if you buy new speakers out right you will not have a solid reference point to learn from. you know how your current setup responds so its best to play with what you have until you get a handle on things.

 

 

Thank you for layman's terms. I will check and report back.

 

I still am not sure these said adjustments will keep up with my substage. that is my hole point to this. but I will play along.

[Dexter Chaos 14]

yes I have a HPF and it was set at 80.

 

and yes i feel that the 6.5 is working close to it limits that is why I wanted to make the change also.

[///M5 2,833]

you a making me a frustrated sandwich!!!!

 

I do not have a harsh sound any longer. The problem I have is that it cannot keep up with my sub stage. When I increased my bass level, since it was at neg7, with my current head unit I was able to find a sound that I really enjoyed. also with some adjustment to the gain on the amp turning it down. I really enjoyed that warm feeling it gave with these adjustments at any volume level while sub stage was off. but you probably dont understand that either.  I have no idea what to tell you so you can help me.

Perhaps describe what happens when you try to make them keep up. Or define what you mean by they don't keep up. My definition of "keeping up" I bet is HUGELY different than yours. So far you've just stated they don't, we need to know what you mean by this to help.

BTW, I will wager a guess, once you describe your difficulty it'll be the opposite of going with an SLS...but until you do that is only speculation.