STI hatchback IB3/Lithium build

[SpeakerBoy 64]

My next car is hopefully going to be a 2002 Subaru Sti hatch, and I'm going to wall it with 6 Fi IB3's on a 7k.

Pic 1

Pic 2

 

My first question is, should I build just a baffle, was thinking 9" baffle; or should I build a partial box and with the back seat removed leave the rear open to the trunk and deaden the fuck out of the lid, along with magnetic locks around the perimeter to keep it from slapping?

 

The second smaller question is, I was daydreaming and thought of putting a trapdoor in the trunk floor on actuators to vent to the ground when I'm driving on the highway or at a show for more airflow. Worth it, or just a nice passing thought? I also thought about building the partial shell, but leaving the rear windows exposed so I could lower them for the same effect. 

I'm going to try an angled baffle, a slight clam or something in a U shape to shoehorn IB3 18's but if not, six fifteens.

Does a massively oversized Sealed box act as an IB enclosure or do you want the losses(provided waves are still separated) I saw a vic with six fifteens IB and he literally dismantled it because flex was violating the car so badly. Hence the partial shell idea, to keep the roof, floor and rear window in tact.

 

I'm super stoked for this. My parents will match me dollar for dollar on the car, so if I pay the whole note I'll have 5-7k for the build. Mids and highs will probably be full Morel or Dayton AMT-Pro's and Evil mids. Are 8" evil mids in the works?

Once the build is completed, I'm gonna sleeve the block and boost the piss out of it.

Edited September 7, 2016 by SpeakerBoy

[Billy Jack 145]

Why not just get like, 2 fi BL 18's instead of all the lower power subs, and hit just as hard with the same power, and a whole lot more room in the car? That's what I did, I was going to do a wall with 4 15" Sundown SA subs, but just to keep my back seat, I went with 2 sundown teams in a trunk wall, and it's incredible loud on just one crescendo 3500bc, but I am about to get 2 ampere audio 3800's instead, one on each sub. 

Edited September 7, 2016 by Billy Jack

[SpeakerBoy 64]

You literally didn't answer any of my questions. Fail.

Not looking for woofer suggestions. Deliberately intend to pursue an IB build, and I already own a Fi BTL 18. 

With as much displacement as I'll have, in a vehicle this size, I'll have sufficient output. One 18 on 1.5k in my Mountaineer is almost where I need it, so six on 7k in a smaller walled car should be a little closer to where I want it.

I've owned plenty of ported and sealed as well as a few shitbox bandpasses. IB bass holds an allure to me, it's always so effortless.

Wattage isn't everything bro. I can get nearly full excursion on a BTL off of 1.5k rms. Enclosure is far more important than drowning a woofer in power. 

Edited September 7, 2016 by SpeakerBoy

[Billy Jack 145]

The reason I suggested two different subs, is because i don't think you will have room, for that many IB subs, of that size ,and the reason being, when the subs are on a baffle, the sound waves are forced to travel further to intersect. The smaller the baffle, the higher waves "upper frequencies" are no longer cancelling out as the baffle seperate's them. As you increase your baffle size, the longer it gets, the lower the waves that no longer cancel depending on 1/4 wavelength and total wavelength. The 1/4 wavelength is 8.5 feet, the total wavelength is 35 feet. So for the driver to recreate 34hz and up without any cancellation it would need to be 35 feet out from the sub, or a total of 75 feet in diameter. A Infinite baffle is a sealed room with a minimum airspace of 25 times the subs vas, so the sub does not see the enclosure. Anything less and the air acts as a spring. 

[SpeakerBoy 64]

I won't have 10x VAS but I'm sure I'll be satisfied with output. Two IB3's would still be plenty. One would be plenty. Once I get a free day, it's off to a dealership to measure an actual vehicle so I'll know what size constraints I'll be facing. 

I have no idea what you're trying to say about cancellation, I love opposed firing woofers. Sexy and sturdy. Clam shells rule. 

You sound like a highschooler who studies at best buy. Don't post on my thread with gibberish and bullshit. Do your research, or keep it to yourself. Look at your rep. Everyone thinks you're an idiot but you. Stop humiliating yourself. 

If you can't provide FACTS I have no interest in your "wisdom" scientific, mathematical  evidence on how I'm wrong or eat my ass. Jesus fucking Christ you're dull.

I push limits and learn to achieve a satisfactory result with less. Always after a lower note. G'day mate.

Edited September 7, 2016 by SpeakerBoy

[Billy Jack 145]

You can do as little as 4 times vas and still do ok, but no way is 6 18's or 6 15's gonna fit in a tiny hatchback and sound good. And no need to get bent out of shape and start name calling, I was just trying to give you some advice, and explain my thinking behind it. And my rep is from one guy who gives me bad rep for liking a build or anything and everything. I have never been nothing but polite to everyone here except one guy and yea he got under my skin. 

[Billy Jack 145]

41 minutes ago, SpeakerBoy said:

I won't have 10x VAS but I'm sure I'll be satisfied with output. Two IB3's would still be plenty. One would be plenty. Once I get a free day, it's off to a dealership to measure an actual vehicle so I'll know what size constraints I'll be facing. 

I have no idea what you're trying to say about cancellation, I love opposed firing woofers. Sexy and sturdy. Clam shells rule. 

You sound like a highschooler who studies at best buy. Don't post on my thread with gibberish and bullshit. Do your research, or keep it to yourself. Look at your rep. Everyone thinks you're an idiot but you. Stop humiliating yourself. 

If you can't provide FACTS I have no interest in your "wisdom" scientific, mathematical  evidence on how I'm wrong or eat my ass. Jesus pucking Christ you're dull.

I push limits and learn to achieve a satisfactory result with less. Always after a lower note. G'day mate.

A suburu sti hatchback is,  64 inches wide, and 58 inches tall. So you plan a wall with 6 18" subs, that if you put them end to end, with zero gap between them, are gonna measure 54" inches wide, and 54" inches tall, do you see the problem now. Now if you had say 2 - 18"s IB yea that would work, probably not going to sound very good or reach a high db number but it's your money. 

[S.DeYoung 967]

Please do not wall a Subie wagon.

[SpeakerBoy 64]

6 hours ago, Billy Jack said:

A suburu sti hatchback is,  64 inches wide, and 58 inches tall. So you plan a wall with 6 18" subs, that if you put them end to end, with zero gap between them, are gonna measure 54" inches wide, and 54" inches tall, do you see the problem now. Now if you had say 2 - 18"s IB yea that would work, probably not going to sound very good or reach a high db number but it's your money. 

Stop posting until you read the whole post. I'm going to take measurements, and decide what design applies best. I'm sure, just to piss you off I could do four on the front baffle and four in a diamond configuration recessed in the center, opposed firing. Clearly I don't value your opinion, stop offering it.

I give you hella bad rep when you say dumb stuff. Get your tongue out of M5's asshole lmao.

 

Sean, I....got this itch man. I'd have to get a sedan to do IB if I don't get the wagon, and I reallllly like the wagons. I don't mind no backseat, and I'll still have a WHOLE trunk.

I suppose another option is an EF hatch, but I really want another vehicle with AWD. Mmmm. I could even do six twelves and mount the amp on the front of the baffle, for super short wire runs.

Basics is, six woofers, Lithium power, stained birch, and 5-8k rms. Vehicle dimensions and how crazy I can get with baffle design is gonna determine the size. I'll have enough bass, and for low to moderate listening, infinitely low response (the goal). 

Spose I could wall the Neer and do a sealed setup in the wagon to keep it light for the track. I'll know more when I get some measurements.

 

Who else buys vehicles around the build and not the other way around lmao

 

Edited September 7, 2016 by SpeakerBoy

[///M5 2,833]

8 hours ago, Billy Jack said:

 The reason I suggested two different subs, is because i don't think you will have room, for that many IB subs, of that size ,and the reason being, when the subs are on a baffle, the sound waves are forced to travel further to intersect. The smaller the baffle, the higher waves "upper frequencies" are no longer cancelling out as the baffle seperate's them. As you increase your baffle size, the longer it gets, the lower the waves that no longer cancel depending on 1/4 wavelength and total wavelength. The 1/4 wavelength is 8.5 feet, the total wavelength is 35 feet. So for the driver to recreate 34hz and up without any cancellation it would need to be 35 feet out from the sub, or a total of 75 feet in diameter.

Or not at all.  Perhaps you should reflect on phase and what cancellation is.  Interference is one thing, but that will be minimal since the wavelength is so long.

8 hours ago, Billy Jack said:

A Infinite baffle is a sealed room with a minimum airspace of 25 times the subs vas, so the sub does not see the enclosure. Anything less and the air acts as a spring. 

In a car 4x Vas is acceptable, 10x more than enough.  25x is absurd.  I am not saying of course that there will be no change when you go up, but you are always chasing diminishing returns in a car anyways.

 

As for the topic at hand, I also agree this is somewhat pointless to try.  I understand the allure you think you are after, but IB, ported, sealed it really doesn't matter.  What does is doing the install right and achieving the goal you want.  Knocking out that much of a car to make a wall to have bass with a certain response is far from the logical way to achieve your goal.  Remember as always, sub-bass is UBER easy to create nice, front stage not so much.  If you are truly after a nice response, ignore the whole sub section and determine the front stage which will then determine the amount of bass you need to keep up.

[SpeakerBoy 64]

What's a good place to start as far as designing a violent midbass setup. I'll spend 2/3 of my total budget for audio on front stage. I do already have a pair of IDQ15's and a Fi BTL on hand to keep me occupied. I'm interested in SPL to weight ratio, and I want it flat from 15-75hz with front stage that can handle the job of keeping up with 145-150db on music. I want to complete one and tailor the other to suit it; and from what you're saying Front stage first.

I'm not solely after loud. I want pristine mids and highs as well, and I mean a system that I do not grow tired of. Holographic imaging, gut wrenching kickdrums, zero sibilance are some things I can list im after.

Ultimately my money always returns to speakers. Keeps me off drugs. Last time I woke up on lifesupport so ultimately, no pricetag will dissuade me from achieving my goal.

Edited September 7, 2016 by SpeakerBoy

[///M5 2,833]

27 minutes ago, SpeakerBoy said:

 I want it flat from 15-75hz with front stage that can handle the job of keeping up with 145-150db on music.....no pricetag will dissuade me from achieving my goal.

Time to level set a bit, you ask for a flat response from 15-75Hz at 145dB+.  What do you want for output at 80Hz, 100Hz, 120Hz, etc?  Still "flat"?  

I ask for clarification as you seem to imply you want midbass that is at the same level as your sub bass....which no way, no how will work.  Exactly why I said the bass part is easy.  A single sub in a real box can wickedly over power even monstrous midbass.  Normally you would do it the other way, determine your midbass capability and then decide on what you want for subs.  That is if accuracy and a flat response are truly your goal.  My guess is that you think you want that....but you don't.

[SpeakerBoy 64]

35 minutes ago, ///M5 said:

Time to level set a bit, you ask for a flat response from 15-75Hz at 145dB+.  What do you want for output at 80Hz, 100Hz, 120Hz, etc?  Still "flat"?  

I ask for clarification as you seem to imply you want midbass that is at the same level as your sub bass....which no way, no how will work.  Exactly why I said the bass part is easy.  A single sub in a real box can wickedly over power even monstrous midbass.  Normally you would do it the other way, determine your midbass capability and then decide on what you want for subs.  That is if accuracy and a flat response are truly your goal.  My guess is that you think you want that....but you don't.

As a realistic comprimise; I've heard a 145db car and that's decent for me basswise for now, I want ruler flat response at moderate levels, full tilt is a little different I suppose. I turn down the mids to save my speakers at full tilt, and turn the mids up when I want it musical. I'm at a severe deficit of vocabulary to describe what im after so ill say "as much midbass as is possible in a door configuration without being severely uncomfortable in the driver's seat" as far as leg room. I'm 6' even. My favorite front stage I've ever seen was Justin's blazer with a fifteen a ten and a super tweet. I'd try a fifteen an eight and an AMT-Pro. But I don't know how much the door size affects the fifteens response. 

I'm probably going for a system that requires hearing protection for demos. I like to FEEL as much of the music as possible. I really think that's why I like it loud.

I have my Mountaineer for transportation of schtuff, the subie is for audio and having fun at the track.

What are the right questions for me to be asking so I'm not running in circles on this? I'll put a pair of fifteens in each door and bolt in Windows if that's what it takes. 

[SpeakerBoy 64]

I want to have a setting for truly SQ oriented output at moderate to high levels, and for when I'm listening to rap and bass tracks full tilt I'll roll the bass knob up.

What tends to be the ceiling of limitations for midbass in a vehicle?

Edited September 7, 2016 by SpeakerBoy

[///M5 2,833]

SQ oriented means single driver for a given frequency range, single driver is your limit in output.

Of course you can compromise anything.  No matter what you do, keeping the driver out of the beaming range will really help.  Means your 15" "Mid" is good to about 450Hz although you could stretch that a bit in a car.  

Let's just say you go the route above and put in a 4 way front stage.  How much midbass are you going to get from a 15" driver in dB?

You are WAY into the realm of uber compromises btw, the one you cannot get around however is the fact you don't have nearly enough space to do what you want.  You would also go deaf rather quickly listening at those levels.  Perhaps you should reconsider your goals or accept the fact you are much more of a basshead.

[Billy Jack 145]

54 minutes ago, ///M5 said:

SQ oriented means single driver for a given frequency range, single driver is your limit in output.

Of course you can compromise anything.  No matter what you do, keeping the driver out of the beaming range will really help.  Means your 15" "Mid" is good to about 450Hz although you could stretch that a bit in a car.  

Let's just say you go the route above and put in a 4 way front stage.  How much midbass are you going to get from a 15" driver in dB?

You are WAY into the realm of uber compromises btw, the one you cannot get around however is the fact you don't have nearly enough space to do what you want.  You would also go deaf rather quickly listening at those levels.  Perhaps you should reconsider your goals or accept the fact you are much more of a basshead.

Anybody seen that vid of the car on you tube the guy made a speaker box out of the entire car with Alfred subs bolted right to the roof I think that is what speaker boy is wanting a giant sti speaker box lol. 

[SpeakerBoy 64]

2 hours ago, Billy Jack said:

Anybody seen that vid of the car on you tube the guy made a speaker box out of the entire car with Alfred subs bolted right to the roof I think that is what speaker boy is wanting a giant sti speaker box lol. 

 

 

 

 

You're an idiot.

2 hours ago, Billy Jack said:

 

Edited September 7, 2016 by SpeakerBoy

[frogcase2002 393]

2 hours ago, Billy Jack said:

Anybody seen that vid of the car on you tube the guy made a speaker box out of the entire car with Alfred subs bolted right to the roof I think that is what speaker boy is wanting a giant sti speaker box lol. 

That thing was putting up some decent numbers

[Randal Johnson 544]

Tyler fade built a bad ass IB setup. Seen it at a world finals event. Put up some impressive numbers. Wasn't anything sound quality, but had some decent sound too. Just Saying 

Speaker boy, you my bro and all, but you really need to concentrate on latching onto that vehicle before making audio plans. 

[Randal Johnson 544]

11 minutes ago, frogcase2002 said:

That thing was putting up some decent numbers

If anybody remembers a certain Bronco back in the day that used the vehicle as the enclosure / port ??? Seen it ALOT back in the day, just wish I knew more about it.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Randal Johnson
Stupid phone

[SpeakerBoy 64]

55 minutes ago, Randal Johnson said:

Tyler fade built a bad ass IB setup. Seen it at a world finals event. Put up some impressive numbers. Wasn't anything sound quality, but had some decent sound too. Just Saying 

Speaker boy, you my bro and all, but you really need to concentrate on latching onto that vehicle before making audio plans. 

Unless I find a rust free 2 door explorer, it's a sure thing. I'll wait to buy a car until I find the the exact  one I want. I understand what you're saying though; but I bought my Mountaineer to put my BTL in, not initially for transportation. Now that I have a vehicle for transportation, I can have a side project. 

I see how loud my BTL gets on less than RMS and I can't argue with M5 on the point that a single woofer can do some serious work. I'm really keen on IB, but an LMS Ultra, Evil, or Team AA even would satify my itch for a while. Especially in a smaller vehicle. Not to mention the already owned BTL.

M5 I'll certainly buy hearing protection for a build like this. I've seen some that attenuate evenly without muffling the sound. I'm not at all about to forget how much I value my hearing. I love loud but if I lose my ear, I'd lose my mind.

Rumor has it it's way easier to find rust free vehicles down south.

Edited September 7, 2016 by SpeakerBoy

[Billy Jack 145]

1 minute ago, SpeakerBoy said:

Unless I find a rust free 2 door explorer, it's a sure thing. I'll wait to buy a car until I find the the exact  one I want. I understand what you're saying though; but I bought my Mountaineer to put my BTL in, not initially for transportation. Now that I have a vehicle for transportation, I can have a side project. 

I see how loud my BTL gets on less than RMS and I can't argue with M5 on the point that a single woofer can do some serious work. I'm really keen on IB, but an LMS Ultra, Evil, or Team AA even would satify my itch for a while. Especially in a smaller vehicle. Not to mention the already owned BTL.

M5 I'll certainly buy hearing protection for a build like this. I've seen some that attenuate evenly without muffling the sound. I'm not at all about to forget how much I value my hearing. I love loud but if I lose my ear, I'd lose my mind.

 

You want loose your hearing as much as you will gain a ringing in them. I have tittinus myself, I think I spelled that right, but anyways it's annoying when your trying to sleep and it's quiet. And learn to take a joke obviously I was kidding about the speaker box car but that is what 6 18"s would look like in a tiny hatchback. 

[frogcase2002 393]

Just get another btl . Wall them in the new vehicle  and then work on a bad ass front stage

[lithium 358]

You're crazy dude. 

[Notorious97200 339]

11 hours ago, frogcase2002 said:

Just get another btl . Wall them in the new vehicle  and then work on a bad ass front stage

I totally agree !  Do it like that and have fun !

I like those Subarus, nice choice, but don't kill it with a wall, please.