Blues Production Sub's. . . . . . . Remember

[Randal Johnson 544]

Keep it civil gentlemen, I don't want to start serving bansandwiches.

yes sir ...

That's his wife

ok ... if you say so ...

maybe it sounds good but it looks like a sub that u can buy @ your local grocery store for 24.99$

was there a theory ? i was just sayin it looks cheap for the price

and no .... i wouldnt buy a sub with no motor even if 1000 folks would say how good it sounds

btw. good luck with your gear and competitions

I understand bro ... I tried out my subs before I bought them. I think everyone should do the same ... Every product, not just subs ...

and thank you, I need all the luck I can get ...

[Julian 641]

[Randal Johnson 544]

Anyone notice the title of this thread ?? ... mainly the sub title ...

Yes the old Blues were made by Stilwater Designs

I designed speakers for Kicker and then left them to help Don Mitchell and Jerry Hubbard design the OLD Blues speakers at Richmond Hill Corporation, which Don started when he left Kicker. Most of us that are here now worked for Kicker at one time, that is the only connection to Stillwater Designs or Kicker.

Thats better ... Carry on guys ...

[Kanaworm$ 292]

[bobonit 5]

And I thought the drama and misinformation was over at S.M.D...

[Kanaworm$ 292]

[Tirefryr 1,742]

And I thought the drama and misinformation was over at S.M.D...

It is. This is simply a logical discussion with a few having their own personal input. It is nothing more than a discussion of of objectivity versus subjectivity.

[///M5 2,833]

maybe it sounds good but it looks like a sub that u can buy @ your local grocery store for 24.99$

Wow. Do you sit there any stare at your speakers, or even the parameters as the other so called audiophiles on this forum or do you properly install them and listen to them as they were intended?

I personally like to listen to my speakers, and could care less what they look like.

When was the last time you could hear a speaker by looking at it?

When is there been ANYTIME that a speaker has been measured and performed differently than the measurements showed it would perform??

Go ahead and use your "golden ears" and listen away. What you hear and what you get can be very easily quantified by measurements, but you wouldn't like the results.

Either way, stop pulling an Ultra. Either measure the damn driver, explain its technological advancements or just don't say anything as saying you use your ears just shows how bad your hearing is.

[Adrian_D 520]

I understand bro ... I tried out my subs before I bought them. I think everyone should do the same ... Every product, not just subs ...

and thank you, I need all the luck I can get ...

I'm all for trying out and judging the sound but if parameters / measurements show the product can't work in my install, why bother spending money and time on it ?

[jcarter1885 995]

I understand bro ... I tried out my subs before I bought them. I think everyone should do the same ... Every product, not just subs ...

and thank you, I need all the luck I can get ...

I'm all for trying out and judging the sound but if parameters / measurements show the product can't work in my install, why bother spending money and time on it ?

Because there Blues Car Audio Drivers, they are winning all the competitions just ask the people running them on this site.

I would get some just to have some trophies in my room, fa sho

[///M5 2,833]

I understand bro ... I tried out my subs before I bought them. I think everyone should do the same ... Every product, not just subs ...

and thank you, I need all the luck I can get ...

I'm all for trying out and judging the sound but if parameters / measurements show the product can't work in my install, why bother spending money and time on it ?

Because there Blues Car Audio Drivers, they are winning all the competitions just ask the people running them on this site.

I would get some just to have some trophies in my room, fa sho

Lol, not so sure everyone one reading that will catch your sarcasm. The should give it away, but I doubt it.

[jcarter1885 995]

Lol, not so sure everyone one reading that will catch your sarcasm. The should give it away, but I doubt it.

I thought they would be able to without the since people on here tend to pull emotion from a post rather then information/facts.

[jimmy2345 0]

And I thought the drama and misinformation was over at S.M.D...

It is. This is simply a logical discussion with a few having their own personal input. It is nothing more than a discussion of of objectivity versus subjectivity.

....And people judging how a speaker sounds by the way it looks

.....and people demanding parameters for a driver they have no interest in purchasing in the first place

......and people who arent rational.....meaning you could have a super woofer with parameters one could only dream of and these people would still have something bad to say. Now why would any company even humor you with parameters....none....why.....they are rational.

[jcarter1885 995]

....And people judging how a speaker sounds by the way it looks

.....and people demanding parameters for a driver they have no interest in purchasing in the first place

......and people who arent rational.....meaning you could have a super woofer with parameters one could only dream of and these people would still have something bad to say. Now why would any company even humor you with parameters....none....why.....they are rational.

Do you even come on here for anything else but to hype up these speakers? Do you even own a pair to be nut riding like you are? Why would one pay $600 or more for components when you cant get a full listing of T/S Parameters, that is pure stupidity to go off someone's opinion who is bias to them? Even if the owner thinks T/S Parameters are useless at least post them for the people who are interested in purchasing them just like most companies who sell speakers.

Your arguing against physics which you can do all day long but wont be taken serious until you come with facts. You like them cause of what you heard from them, just like everyone else who likes them. Most people in life wont like something you like so deal with it, in which your case it seems it is hard to deal with. I could care less if I love how the speakers sound in my car rather than what other people think. You sir arent adding anything to this discussion but your love and opinions for these speakers, thats all .

[///M5 2,833]

And I thought the drama and misinformation was over at S.M.D...

It is. This is simply a logical discussion with a few having their own personal input. It is nothing more than a discussion of of objectivity versus subjectivity.

....And people judging how a speaker sounds by the way it looks

.....and people demanding parameters for a driver they have no interest in purchasing in the first place

......and people who arent rational.....meaning you could have a super woofer with parameters one could only dream of and these people would still have something bad to say. Now why would any company even humor you with parameters....none....why.....they are rational.

Again you come back with subjective responses and an air of defensiveness. I gave you an out. You just know it will make them look worse.

Besides no one demanded measurements, they just said to stop the subjective nonsense and either give up some details on why they are superior from a technical perspective or to prove it with measurements. So far no one from Blues has done either. And your "rational" response is to state they just sound good which is subjective. To me rational would have some bit of science behind it.

As for no intention to buy, funny you should say that. Obviously NO ONE in their right mind would ever think of buying these with the way they are being marketed; however, if you were to put up some measurements or show why they are superior technologically then I would be interested in buying some. I have a new car being shipped to me right now; how do you know what I am going to put in it?

Another out you have is to answer any of my questions from before which you seem to ignore. Obviously if these were truly exceptional drivers it would be easy, so lets hear it.

maybe it sounds good but it looks like a sub that u can buy @ your local grocery store for 24.99$

Wow. Do you sit there any stare at your speakers, or even the parameters as the other so called audiophiles on this forum or do you properly install them and listen to them as they were intended?

I personally like to listen to my speakers, and could care less what they look like.

When was the last time you could hear a speaker by looking at it?

When is there been ANYTIME that a speaker has been measured and performed differently than the measurements showed it would perform??

Go ahead and use your "golden ears" and listen away. What you hear and what you get can be very easily quantified by measurements, but you wouldn't like the results.

Either way, stop pulling an Ultra. Either measure the damn driver, explain its technological advancements or just don't say anything as saying you use your ears just shows how bad your hearing is.

[Adrian_D 520]

And I thought the drama and misinformation was over at S.M.D...

It is. This is simply a logical discussion with a few having their own personal input. It is nothing more than a discussion of of objectivity versus subjectivity.

....And people judging how a speaker sounds by the way it looks

.....and people demanding parameters for a driver they have no interest in purchasing in the first place

......and people who arent rational.....meaning you could have a super woofer with parameters one could only dream of and these people would still have something bad to say. Now why would any company even humor you with parameters....none....why.....they are rational.

Argue on my statements, don't beat it around the bush...

Why in the world would I buy when I can't find any info other that "It sounds like a choir of a thousand angels" ? There are people who buy because of that. There are people who buy on looks.

Do you want to change my beliefs and make me buy now based on hearsay ? Sorry, not going to work. Understand that you are coming in a group where people care about some pieces of information to back up claims (that has been quite clear from when Impious started to post). Ultra-subjective opinions have a hard time flying.

I could however point you to a group where only subjective opinions count. Convince one and you have the whole group under control.

[Impious 1,476]

This is so funny to read. All you haters must realize that hating on a product you have never even heard is obsurd to begin with. Not to mention, there is no reason to hate. If you don't want to spend the money to purchase these drivers....go somewhere else and purchase your speakers. Any rational person would at least listen to the speakers before making an opinion.

Isn't listening to speakers their intended purpose? They weren't designed for the purpose of you testing them so you can stare at measurements your ears clearly don't care about.

I can just imagine you wierdos sitting in your cars listening to whatever brand of speakers you run and thinking about parameters. Boy, you really are enjoying those speakers huh?

....And people judging how a speaker sounds by the way it looks

.....and people demanding parameters for a driver they have no interest in purchasing in the first place

......and people who arent rational.....meaning you could have a super woofer with parameters one could only dream of and these people would still have something bad to say. Now why would any company even humor you with parameters....none....why.....they are rational.

For someone so keen on using the term "rational", you seem to not understand it's definition.

Which line of argument seems most rational to you?

1. Increasing understanding of an object via methods that are reliable, repeatable, comparable and objective in nature.
2. Increasing understanding of an object via reliance upon opinions and experiences which are not reliable, are not repeatable, can not be used to make comparisons, and are subjective in nature and hence will vary from person to person.

Are you seriously trying to tell us that #2 is the more rational, logical means by which to operate? We would still be living in the dark ages if science hadn't developed a logical, rational method by which to discover facts about our world. Why on earth is a method that has allowed us to discover the secrets of the universe and taken us from the first electric grid to the Information Age in barely 100 years suddenly not sufficient to describe the operation of a loudspeaker?

And why is it that anyone who isn't absolutely awestruck by the subjective opinions made about Blues speakers and who aren't willing to accept them hook, line and sinker are labeled a "hater" by everyone in the Blues camp? I bet if you go through this entire 10 page thread, you could count the number of comments negative towards Blues on one hand.....and those comments were not made by the main people contributing to this thread in favor of objective information and against subjective information.

So now we're "haters" if we don't accept subjective opinions as God's written word and suggest that objective measurements are more useful? Simply stating that subjective opinions are exactly that, subjective, and as a result utterly meaningless is not saying that Blues speakers sound bad. I don't recall anyone who hasn't heard the speakers making one single comment about their sound. If there is a post in this thread, it would have to be a single post.

For the most part the later 5 pages has been a discussion of the differing benefits of objective versus subjective information.....that is, until a Blues supporter hops in, takes our posts out of contexts, complains about us "haters" not having heard the speakers and therefore we can't say they sound bad, so we need to stop saying they sound bad.....even though no one had even attempted to comment on their sound.......then we go back in a circle with said supporter about the differing benefits of objective versus subjective information.....then another Blues supports hops in, takes our posts out of contexts, complains about us "haters" not having heard the speakers and therefore we can't say they sound bad, so we need to stop saying they sound bad.....even though no one had even attempted to comment on their sound.......then we go back in a circle with said supporter about the differing benefits of objective versus subjective information.....Are we noticing a trend yet?

If you want to identify what has been the most irrational part of this thread....it would undoubtedly and without question be the responses made by the Blues supporters. The amount of defensive and confrontational posts coming from that end of the conversation, along with the amount of comments being taken completely out-of-context, simply because we aren't impressed by subjective opinions is absolutely astonishing, and quite frankly, laughable.

And really, the T/S parameter thing can be dropped. It was an off-hand comment made to briefly display the value of objective information as those are by far and away the most widely used objective information for loudspeakers. It really wasn't a central or even main point to the discussion......yet for some reason, the Blues guys keep circling back to it. The main point to the discussion is why subjective opinions aren't useful for telling anybody anything about the speakers performance.

But if understanding the value of objective measurements and a lack of willingness to accept subjective opinions as facts makes me a hater, then fine....I'll gladly be a hater.

[Impious 1,476]

And why is it that anyone who isn't absolutely awestruck by the subjective opinions made about Blues speakers and who aren't willing to accept them hook, line and sinker are labeled a "hater" by everyone in the Blues camp?

So now we're "haters" if we don't accept subjective opinions as God's written word and suggest that objective measurements are more useful?

Seriously though.....I've asked several times, but have yet to get a direct response to this question by anybody in the Blues camp.

I'm seriously interested in hearing the answer to why this is, as several different people have come in here who are quite obviously supporters of Blues who are up-in-arms that we are over here saying blasphemous things about Blues speakers, when we (the main posters in this thread; i.e. myself and M5) haven't commented about the sound of the speakers themselves at all, other than saying we aren't going to accept opinions about performance as facts.

[Kanaworm$ 292]

I see an easy resolution to this. Someone from Blues should send out a pair of comps whether it be the 5.25", 6.5" or even the 8" system to an independent, unbiased person to test. Let the person(s) test and measure all parameters. Then install and go through various listening tests with various mounting options and listening positions and give their likes and dislikes.

npdang from DIYMA would be a choice or even Car Audio And Electronics magazine online could be another option.

I can understand the frustration on both sides and this would be a great way for Blues to get there name out in the market and let the rest of us see what seperates them from the rest of the market!

Just my .02!

[Duran 387]

I agree. I vote Impious

[Randal Johnson 544]

I'm not sure on this, but I think that Linear/Blues company may be sending invitations to Mark and Aaron for a private demo session at the ces show in a couple of months ... If this happens, will that satisfy everyone ??

[Sir-Lancelot 216]

Randal, you know full well it would satisfy 99% of most people to hear them installed, but there is that 1% that will only be satisfied when that can hear it on paper.

Neither side is wrong, different people want different things, that's just the way it is bro.

There are only a couple of people on here that actually would know what they are looking at if Ray supplied TS numbers. lol

[Randal Johnson 544]

The ones that want to know info like that already know all they got to do is email Ray@linearpower.com ...

Thanks guys, Randal ....

[///M5 2,833]

The ones that want to know info like that already know all they got to do is email Ray@linearpower.com ...

Thanks guys, Randal ....

Why not post it, or at least answer Brad's question?

[Randal Johnson 544]

I do not call or consider anyone a hater on this forum. To my knowledge, the only person that hates me is M5.

In fact, I've comlplimented impious on several of his post.

Duran knows he's gotten compliments from me several times.

I enjoy posting on this forum, if I didn't, I wouldn't have wasted almost 1500 post here.

We have been labled as bias, but none of us on team linear/blues work for the company. Our equipment is bought just like everyone else. We have been very friendly at shows and demos. We talked and demoed for several SSA members at world finals this year.

M5, I can't give you what I don't have nor do I have acess to.

I can only go by how the system performs in my personal vehicle. Ray post all the time with a lot of information on CA-F. That is where the linear/blues section is located. Please guys, check it out.