help with graphs.

[smashedz28 110]

Ok, im new to what im about to get into. never really graphed out the response of a sub i was interested in before. I purchased this program "subwoofer design toolbox" by Mark Rumreich.

I have been punching in the few parameters this programs requires on just about every sub lately that i could possibly be interested in. Alot give me a weird looking graph that to the best of my knowledge looks bad, real peaky. so I run across an sa12 which is in my budget and just might fit my goals. Im looking for a sub that will basically be as much of a ground pounder as i can with 1 sub. I want it to nail the lows and sound decent enough everywhere else. listen to rap and bass heavy music but im sick and tired of installs that hit a few frequencies like a champ but are sloppy as shit everywhere else. i want it to sound good also. Currently i have a Treo ssx 12", sounds like overall shit. not happy with it at all, and maybe this graph shows why. let me post a few of what I have found here.

SA-12'.

Current sub Treo SSX 12"

Now i hope i did this right. this particular program asks you provide it with Fs/Qts/Vas , also a enclosure size and a tuning freq. seems pretty simple...i think. If i totally screwed these up please tell me, if not then please explain what you see when you look at them. what i see is the Sa12 sounding alot smoother through the frequencies compared to the peaky treo.?? Also i thought power usuage come to to play somewhere, this program doesnt ask that. anyone know why? appreciate any guidance i can get on this, really trying to not just slap shit together but really understand more of what is involved.

[smashedz28 110]

Here is a pic of the program, is this information entered correctly?... the blue boxes at the bottom are recommendations not actual fields to enter into.

[Kanaworm$ 292]

Basically the graph shows you the Sundown SA-12 is louder and smoother with the same box size and tuning frequency. The Sundown SA-12 in a 2.5 ft^3 box will handle less power as the box is larger than recommended.

Never used that program but you can compare it to WinISD and see how the graphs compare.

[smashedz28 110]

I have tried winisd and bassbox, somehow i always get lost inputing the info or something lol. it wants every bit of info in which i dont have most of it usually. might be a little too advanced for me right now. this one was easy to use and seemed decent. Only reason i graphed the 2.5cu ft box is because thats what i have built already that the treo is in, wanted to throw that in there for chances of using the same box, but not a big deal.

[95Honda 486]

Quick question, does it ask if the driver is DVC and if so do you have it selected so both coils are driven? If not, Q is raised signifigantly and response is full of ripple...

Othere than that, you may be modeling right, but I have no idea unless I actually see what you are doing.....

[smashedz28 110]

As far as options what i posted is it 95honda. That screen shot of the program is all that is asked to get those graphs. Can you explain to me a little better what you mean?

[bassahaulic 155]

No program can accurately predict what you woofer will do inside your vehicle.

[smashedz28 110]

i understand that, but i want to get the best idea I can before i go dumping money. ive spent so much money on different subs for this truck just goin with the hype and its taught me a good lesson.. do my damn homework. Although i seem to find subs cheap on CL its time i do this right, im sick of messing with this truck lol.

[///M5 2,833]

No program can accurately predict what you woofer will do inside your vehicle.

The box is a major portion of it though and cabin gain is controllable via electronics. Obviously any anomalies due to the constrained space will also have to be dealt with.

95 was asking if you used the coils in parallel/series specifications on the driver and if the software then understood that. It can GREATLY change the response if you didn't.

[smashedz28 110]

I entered the information as listed on SSA's store for the sa12's. Was this wrong? Can you help me do this properly?

nothing other than this was entered. Has anyone used this particular program before?

[///M5 2,833]

Did you input the T/S?

[smashedz28 110]

I entered what this program asked. Fs/Qts/Vas... box volume and port frequency. thats it. all it asks for. here watch this.

http://www.youtube.com/user/rumreich#p/u/9/OoHudoFF-i0

he has a few different video's of him using this software, he is also the creator of it.

[cobra93 47]

I watched the video you linked, it doesn't show much.

I also looked at their website, I don't see anywhere to enter any additional info beside the what you've shown in the pics.

There is a tutorial in winisd that gives you the order the info should be entered for a new driver. Try playing with winisd again and see if you can make sense of it.

While the response of the system will change once you place it in a car, it will give you an idea of what you like/dislike. You will hopefully have an idea of what to try next, too much/little low end or to peaky and go from there.

[Impious 1,476]

What that graph tells me is that you have the Treo in the wrong enclosure.

Your graph for the SSX looks fairly similar to the results from Unibox (Unibox doesn't show quite as big of a dip, but the shape is generally the same). And I realize Treo recommends 2.25cuft tuned to around 37hz (based on the F3 predicted by Unibox, since Treo only gives port dimensions and F3 and not actually recommended port tuning, and I'm too lazy to calculate it out). But keep in mind the recommended enclosure is only a single alignment and response out of a wide range of options, and Treo's goals for their recommended enclosure size may be something different than your goals. Treo's recommendation is not very smooth and poorly damped. I realize you aren't spot on Treo's recommended enclosure. But moral of the story is that enclosure has a lot to do with performance. I've played around and found some better options, I'll leave it up to you to see if you can do the same. Spend some time playing around with your new enclosure program and redesign an enclosure for the Treo and see what you think before you spend money on a new sub.

Applied power can be important for predicting cone excursion levels, to make sure you aren't exceeding your subwoofers excursion capabilities and to determine how much power a driver may "require" for a given enclosure.

[smashedz28 110]

Not sure where this thread is going.. ive been playin with this damn program for going on a week now. Ive tried everything to the best of MY knowledge to see what my problems are. My goals again would be something that i can really pound on, i want loud and good bass, i would guess a strong 30+ish range.. something that looks on a graph like how i did the sa-12. smooth. Again.. very new to this style of deciding on a subwoofer.

As far as making the treo sound better, i cant get it to smooth out exactly. Playing with this program it kinda appears that if I use a bigger box and raise tuning i could get it better than it is now. Program recommends a 36.9hz tune, so i used that. That could be me not knowing what im looking at also. Would you say this is better than it currently is? Or better yet would you say this fits my goals more than say an sa12? Here is a pic

Green is current box.

Edited March 4, 2011 by smashedz28

[smashedz28 110]

Looks like i have been graphing the treo wrong, my current box isnt 2.5, not sure why i have been putting that into this program. current box is 2.25 built like this.

Picture the box turned so port is facing outwards on driver side, sub forward. like this