New Speaker Setup Ideas

[altoncustomtech 773]

Mids are going to be mounted in the doors. I know you suggested a 7" mid but I can fit a 10" if needed. ( )  I should be able to get away with 5, MAYBE 6" of depth depending on how much I build out the door with my pods.

 

Now as far as my goals for the mid, Id really like to find one that will have impressive, hard hitting midbass while still sounding as nice as possible..  Sorry if that's a little vague, haven't dealt with front stage too much so its kind of hard to tell what I actually want.

 

You would be surprised how strong the midbass can be from a 6.5" or 7" driver that's installed properly.  The 6.5" Bravox mids in my component sets can dole out enough midbass to literally feel the impact in my chest and body all while keeping their composure in the upper bass and midrange frequencies.  It's the first time for me to have a 6.5" do that though and it gets grins from everyone I show it off to as well.  Obviously it's not the same kind of impact one could expect from a larger diameter driver, but I figure for something that size to be felt it must be more in the installation than the driver itself.

 

I like the idea of doing a good 8" or 10" midbass coupled with a widebander.  jroadtatts did just that in his Honda, originally with a pair of 10" Aura woofers and 3" Fostex fullrangers then upgraded the 10's to 12's, so it can be done.  Although at this point, I think as long as you paid good close attention to detail with the installation you can and will be impressed with what a 6.5/7" woofer could do for you.

[MikeMartel 64]

Totally understood Alton. But I like really impressive people, and doing things that most people dont have in their setups.  To be honest I really want to try out an 8", a 10" would be pushing it a little much I think, so Id like to try the 8"

[Impious 1,476]

Since you are going with a-pillar tweeters already, and you seem to have your heart set on using large mids.....this might be one instance where going with an 8" (or 10") midbass and a 3" widebander on top might be a good option.  The larger diameter full range driver on top will play a lot lower than any tweeter allowing you to better mate with the mid and giving you a much larger selection of mids.  A couple downsides are that the widebander MUST be on-axis to the listener, and you'll be losing some top end response and "shimmer".

 

If those are issues you can deal with it will make your situation a little easier.  If you wanted to stick with a tweeter on top then you are going to be severely limited for choices of both 8" mids and tweeters as you'd necessarily need a crossover point in the vicinity of 1500hz and there are limited choices in both categories to meet that need.  The last option is to go with more standard 6.5" - 7" mid, possibly even a higher excursion option like the Exodus Anarchy.

 

Decide which way you want to go.

I certainly don't know how much room he has in the pillar sections, and have always leaned towards a 2-way setup, but in this instance it doesn't seem like it would be that much more work (for a beginner) to jump to a 3-way, and use some small tweeters where the WB start dropping off.

 

I mean one could certainly spend weeks finding that perfect XO point, slope, and filter type between the WB and tweet, but this doesn't seem like a stretch to get the mid and WB tuned, then move on to the tweet.

 

Only reason I brought it up as feasible is that the tweeters would have a pretty narrow bandwidth at such a high frequency that it would be harder to mistune.

 

Though this may require an additional amp, more space, money, another dsp, and more effort than what the reward is worth.

 

What do you think?

Seems like Mike already made up his mind....but with the added amp channels, additional processing (options for 4-way are generally more expensive), additional space and although minimal tuning it's one less thing to worry about (speaker selection, phase, placement, aiming, xover freq & slope, EQ, etc) the 2-way with a WB would end up being much more simple.  Though it's a good stepping point to moving on to a 3-way when funds/knowledge allow since he'll already have a good midrange to fill in the middle.  And really, if he ends up happy with a WB up top then it's less expense and headache.  I generally don't advise WB (I know Sean is all about them) but in this case with a desire to run a large midbass it simply makes more sense.

 

Personally for your situation I think the Peerless SLS8 would be a no-brainer: http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-8-woofers/peerless-sls-830667-8-paper-cone-woofer/

 

Affordable, parameters would lend it to working well in a car door, good excursion, proven performance.  Downside is it's only good up to about 300hz, so you need a widebander that can play down that low.  On the bright side you're using a widebander and not a tweeter so that isn't a huge issue.

[MikeMartel 64]

Peerless it is then..  Now, lets see how good my skills are.   http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-3-fullrange/fountek-fr89ex-3-full-range-4-ohm/   How is that for a full range?

[ssh 924]

How much output are you expecting out of this? IE: Trying to somewhat match the 2 15" Icons? If so WB may become problematic.

 

Perhaps Impious knows of a "magic" WB with less compromises to the output department, or I'm wrong on my last statement about output being an issue. 

Edited February 20, 2013 by stefanhinote

[MikeMartel 64]

Not really sure if output would be an issue... Guess Impious would have to chime in for that answer.

[ssh 924]

Not really sure if output would be an issue... Guess Impious would have to chime in for that answer.

Well are you expecting it to match your subs near full tilt, or rather have some nice impact at regular listening levels with the subs turned down?

[MikeMartel 64]

Im for sure expecting it to have a nice impact when the subs are turned down.  I still don't expect much to keep up with the bass at full tilt.

[Impious 1,476]

In the main passband I don't think output would be an issue.  A WB's rated sensitivity is lower than a standard tweeter, but given their sizable cone area advantage their peak output capabilities will exceed that of a tweeter.....might take comparatively more power to get there, but given their coils are significantly larger than a tweeter's and tweeter's really don't use much power to start with that's not going to be much of an issue.  Where a WB is going to fall short of a tweeter is above ~10khz, but how much that affects things depends on listener preference, listener's hearing abilities and listening material.

[Impious 1,476]

Peerless it is then..  Now, lets see how good my skills are.   http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-3-fullrange/fountek-fr89ex-3-full-range-4-ohm/   How is that for a full range?

From the measurements I've seen they don't make a spectacular widebander.  Great midrange, but not a great WB on the top end.  Many people use them as WB though and are happy, so I guess it's all relative.

 

WB aren't my forte, honestly.....I'm not as well read or experienced with their relative performance.  Sean would probably be able to give suggestions much quicker than myself.  I'd need to spend some time researching.

[MikeMartel 64]

Nevermind that..   Which Sean should I be looking for?

Edited February 21, 2013 by MikeMartel

[Impious 1,476]

M5

[lithium 358]

i ran the same MB with a widebander for a while before stepping up to a 3 way frontstage. 

 

this is the wb i used. http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-3-fullrange/peerless-830986-3-full-range/

 

i also tried another wb in my bro's install. 

 

http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-3-fullrange/fountek-fr88ex-3-full-range/

 

it's been quite some time since i ran this setup but i really enjoyed it.  i think the fountek in my bro's car might be the better wb but without comparing things under the same conditions that's just a subjective observation. 

 

im sure it's been said already, the trick with WB's is that they must be on axis. 

[ssh 924]

Check out the Tang Bang W3-1364SA.

[///M5 2,833]

Crap, a topic I actually dig and missed it.  Took a PM from Mike for me to find it.

 

The FR88/89 doesn't look like on paper like the response is stellar up top but it'll more than make up for that in the voicing of the midrange itself.  I am an absolute fan of the FR & mini-sub for a front stage.  If you can make the mounting locations work the effect is stellar for a lot of reasons.  Between the ease of tuning, voicing from a near point source, and monster midbass I absolutely love the idea WHEN you can mount the FR on axis.

 

The best sounding car setup I've ever heard used a Fostex FF85 mated with a stupid $15 5" sub for midbass and a JL W3 playing 40Hz and below.  Imaging and FR was insane.  Output wasn't its forte, but was still more than plenty.

[MikeMartel 64]

Its settled then.. Peerless SLS8 midbass, Fountek FR89 EX3 wideband and a minidsp for the processing.  Lets give this impala some SQ upfront.

 

Cant thank Sean or Impious enough, both extremely knowledgeable. 

[Notorious97200 339]

It's a pitty we don't see those kind of topics (on front stage) more often.

 

I love bass, but without a god front stage it doesn't make sense. And I hate to hear all those local setups with "pro" audio drivers that scream so much.

 

So, a widebander can be enough in the upper frequencies ? No need for tweeters with them ?

I'd like to listen to a setup like that. Maybe I could try taht one day.

But I'm still in love with my Focal set !!!

[///M5 2,833]

Obviously with the sensitivity and power handling ultra loud is not the goal nor benefit of full range and a monster midbass.  Imaging, ease of processing and the focus a point source allows can be huge.

[MikeMartel 64]

Wasn't ever aiming to be really loud. Obviously, I'm expecting the midbass to pack a good punch, but I don't need screaming highs that you can hear from across the parking lot. Haha

[///M5 2,833]

Beware the input/output voltages of the minidsp.  If your amps can't hack a really low level signal you may also need a line driver.  Obviously you can test this rather easily

[Shogen 325]

Wasn't ever aiming to be really loud. Obviously, I'm expecting the midbass to pack a good punch, but I don't need screaming highs that you can hear from across the parking lot. Haha

 

 

good stuff... I have a hard time not leaving my bass up high unless I have my lady in the car with me or I'm playing at louder than normal listening levels.... cuz then it just doesn't "sound right" to me....

 

 

**Also M&M, are you only using the minidsp for processing because your HU does not allow or you just wanted the better options??? Or is it a basic HU?

Edited February 21, 2013 by Shogen

[MikeMartel 64]

My HU does have processing, it has 13 band Eq's both left and right, but I really think the minidsp will allow me to have much great customization of cross over points, ect. They are pretty cheap anyway so I don't really think I can go wrong.

[emh9009 199]

Be sure to keep us updated with this build. I want to do this front stage (SLS 8 & full range) in my next build! Love reading threads like this.

[MikeMartel 64]

I'm doing a proper build log sometime soon. I always end up making one, not taking any pictures and basically forgetting about my whole build log thread. Going to be making a new one, first go over all the subwoofer content, new box, aeroport, vinyl wrapped amp racks ect. Time to show off my worksman ship.

[shizzzon 461]

Time to show off my worksman ship.

 

Dude, you have a ship?!?!  Awesome!