More power for mids?

[lithium 358]

scotch guard might be worth trying. 

 

maybe this wet look stuff or something similar might be worth checking out. 
http://www.parts-express.com/Search.aspx?keyword=wet%20look&sitesearch=true

[hdrox88 142]

Scotch guard should work, so long as it doesn't break down the cone material, lol. It seems like a pretty foolproof remedy. I read somewhere about people stretching pantyhose over the back of the speaker and scotch guarding that. I would think that they would shred pretty soon and become useless.

[///M5 2,833]

I've had plenty of paper in my doors...including shitty GM ones that leaked like a sieve.

[hdrox88 142]

Lol, I hear ya. When I pulled the factory speakers out of mine at 147k miles the cone and surround we're completely separated 100% on both sides. Half the surround was gone, dust in the wind. Had to be the second worse sounding stereo I've ever heard.

[hdrox88 142]

Just ordered a set of the CA variety. I figure starting with a well known, easy to tune speaker is better for me so I can get a good grasp on what I am doing. Thanks to all for the help and patience. My build log will get an update once they show up.

[hdrox88 142]

The Seas mids have become a welcome addition to my front stage. The line between mid-bass ans sub-bass is not easily noticeable anymore. The XS28s I have now seem to get fuzzy and kinda lack detail compared to the new mids. Also, they don't reach anything above 10khz-12khz or so, even on axis. I am considering a tweeter change now and from some quick searches and reading, the Seas 27TDFC looks like a good match if I stick with Seas. If I look to different mids in the future, would this be a versatile tweeter to play with different mid choices in a 2-way system?

[jcarter1885 995]

That tweeter is huge, I dont see how it won't work out. You know my vote would be for the SB Acoustics SB29RDNC-C000-4.

[///M5 2,833]

If you can fit a large format tweeter that is great, but do beware on the size.  I also wouldn't recommend that tweeter generically speaking...although I have a pair in my basement if you really wanted them, lol.

 

I'd start the same way you did with the mids let's talk about what you don't like about the current ones and go from there.  First tweaking their settings before just replacing them.

[nadcicle 77]

The XS28 lack anything but high end. I'll echo what M5 said and definitely do more tweaking with what you have. I had a set in my older model suburban in the factory location which was cross axis pointed towards the ceiling/driver direction from the passenger door and towards the celing/driver direction from the drivers door and the sound was actually piercing on the high end and it was something I had to eq out. Funny thing is I was also using a PPi 900.4. I believe I had it set to full and was doing all of the changes from the prs-80 at the time though. 

[hdrox88 142]

Oops, I guess that's what I get for trying to research late at night. Just double checked on the measurements. It would take a lot of work, but I actually might be able to squeeze something like that in. Not sure it would be worth it though.

I was playing with test tones of a bunch of freqs when I was testing on the mids. I was playing with each tweet by itself too. I was trying to get the flattest response I could from about 80hz on up. That was when I noticed the tweets falling off up high. Maybe I am deaf to those super high freqs? Maybe the tones I was using were junk? Something to note, these tweets are also that same that were hooked to the RF T400-4 that had major crosstalk issues and they are possibly damaged as I had lost one of them within a few hours of playtime before I realized what was happening.

[///M5 2,833]

Your ears roll off at high frequencies. Look up equal loudness contours.

Considering we are on page 9, a refresh on the install and where these are wouldn't hurt. Pics of course are worth 1000 words.

[hdrox88 142]

They are currently in the stock location of my doors(2001 tahoe) powered by a P600.2 very conservative on the gain. The height is about knee level, though I seem to want to say you have an escalade so you know what I am working with.

 

Edited August 19, 2014 by hdrox88

[///M5 2,833]

Used to have an 02 Silverado. Large format tweeters fit in there EASILY.

That being said, you need something will REALLY good off axis response. Generically speaking this means a smaller driver and not as good at digging low.

Things like the XT19 Vifa, LPG nfa and such. Look for a clean smooth off axis response in the FR plots.

[hdrox88 142]

I was just doing a little tweeter reading on zaph and that xt19 has a nice looking response for sure. I also was reading that he says that flat tuning higher freqs(10k+) are not nearly as important as many make them out to be. I also looked up that equal-loudness curve thing mentioned. I never realized that we don't actually "hear" a "flat" response, we actually are tuning and making a wild curve that is perceived as "flat" by our individual ears.

 

I had even considered ID/ES mini horns under the dash, but I don't know if I am ready for something like that yet.

[///M5 2,833]

Going to need more processing and a lot of time to run horns. Can surely rip though.

Output and smaller diaphragm tweeters don't go hand in hand...in particular if you need them to dig low.

Spend sometime listening to ONLY the mids and determine how high they play satisfactorily for you. That will help a bunch in the tweeter selection. Use a rather steep curve on the top end (ie LP the mid at 24dB and keep upping the cross point until it is lacking).

[hdrox88 142]

I figured the 80prs didn't have enough adjustment for horns. I am fairly confident I'll end up with a minidsp in the future regardless of the driver route I take. Maybe one of Q's units depending on what comes of them.

 

Sounds good. I want to get my center console back in first so I make sure I'm getting the true response. I'm at 3.15khz/12db right now.

[nadcicle 77]

I figured the 80prs didn't have enough adjustment for horns. I am fairly confident I'll end up with a minidsp in the future regardless of the driver route I take. Maybe one of Q's units depending on what comes of them.

 

Sounds good. I want to get my center console back in first so I make sure I'm getting the true response. I'm at 3.15khz/12db right now.

 

This is correct. The only headunit with built in processing that would likely do well would still be one that had an external module like a pioneer dex p9 or alpine with its external dsp. Even then there are tons of cheaper options to be had. I think you're on the right track with going for a minidsp as it's cheap enough that you don't feel ripped off even if you don't end up using it enough. 

 

Horns and their 6-8k hurt 

[hdrox88 142]

Maybe the tweeters really aren't all that bad. I think it's just the upgrade bug playing tricks on me this time. I'll probably make these last til I am ready for horns. I would rather have equipment that can surpass what I expect of it so I can go easy on it, rather than pushing things to the ragged edge only to want more. These Seas mids are waking up. Nice warm, yet snappy midbass that I never had with the IDs.

[nadcicle 77]

Maybe the tweeters really aren't all that bad. I think it's just the upgrade bug playing tricks on me this time. I'll probably make these last til I am ready for horns. I would rather have equipment that can surpass what I expect of it so I can go easy on it, rather than pushing things to the ragged edge only to want more. These Seas mids are waking up. Nice warm, yet snappy midbass that I never had with the IDs.

 

I will never say that horns are a bad thing since I run horns in both my rides, but be prepared for swapping out mids yet again. They simply don't make a 6.5/7" that gets loud enough with a good frequency bandwidth and sensitivity that can keep up with horns for a decent price. You will need to step up to a 10" or better to get the best of both worlds. Not sure how much it will affect you but full size horns just would not work in my model suburban, I had to run mini's. This will also impact how far down you can play with the horns themselves and also impact the type of mid you can run. On the mini's I can get down to 2k with the volume I have to play them at to keep up with the substage. You can play them at 1500mhz as long as you turn them back to 2k when you decide to get loud. 1500mhz does sound good, but then you are changing back and forth between it and the settings of your mid so you'll eventually just say forget about it and leave it at 2k. Point is, if/when you decide to get horns be more prepared than I was and go with a decent midbass speaker capable of playing low enough to make you happy and at least high enough to get up to where the horn drops off. 

[jcarter1885 995]

Nothing is gonna keep up with horns, but it doesnt mean you have to run them full steam either. Eric has mentioned the 18 Sound 6ND430 and SilverFlute w17rc38 as mids that can be used with horns along with the ID X65. So 6.5"/7" can work and do the trick. Its all about personal preference, listening habits and goals. Not everybody is trying to get their front stage to be as loud as their subs.

[///M5 2,833]

10" mid isn't required, but the Seas will be COMPLETELY overwhelmed. Of course so would 4 of them.

Can't have output and bandwidth, just not possible. Exactly why PA systems use a bunch of drivers. More drivers, more complexity, harder to tune, and will never blend as well...but you'll get output.

No way, no how would I EVER run a 10" driver for playing midrange. It doesn't gain you anything.

[hdrox88 142]

I've already checked, would only fit the minis in mine as well. No way I'd want to chop up my door to fit a 10" driver in there. I might be able to get a 8" in with a little work and still stay behind the factory grill. Of course I say that now, who knows what I'll end up with.

[swift 501]

10" mid isn't required, but the Seas will be COMPLETELY overwhelmed. Of course so would 4 of them.

Can't have output and bandwidth, just not possible. Exactly why PA systems use a bunch of drivers. More drivers, more complexity, harder to tune, and will never blend as well...but you'll get output.

No way, no how would I EVER run a 10" driver for playing midrange. It doesn't gain you anything.

 

Not disagreeing totally, but my Rockford Pro Audio 10's are crossed at 50hz - 4khz  and fill the gap quite nice and are loud and have good midbass aswell. I would say they would do well paired with some horns especially crossing the horns at 1.5k or so. 

 

I will say Senchez's 12's are even more awesome. But not many people are prepared to run such a large driver up front. 

[swift 501]

I've already checked, would only fit the minis in mine as well. No way I'd want to chop up my door to fit a 10" driver in there. I might be able to get a 8" in with a little work and still stay behind the factory grill. Of course I say that now, who knows what I'll end up with.

It will be hard to find a single 8 that will keep up with some hlcd's. Not that they cant completely but the horns would be turned way down to match well.

 

Email Eric Stevens and see what he would recommend. He would know best

Edited August 21, 2014 by swift

[///M5 2,833]

10" mid isn't required, but the Seas will be COMPLETELY overwhelmed. Of course so would 4 of them.

Can't have output and bandwidth, just not possible. Exactly why PA systems use a bunch of drivers. More drivers, more complexity, harder to tune, and will never blend as well...but you'll get output.

No way, no how would I EVER run a 10" driver for playing midrange. It doesn't gain you anything.

 

Not disagreeing totally, but my Rockford Pro Audio 10's are crossed at 50hz - 4khz  and fill the gap quite nice and are loud and have good midbass aswell. I would say they would do well paired with some horns especially crossing the horns at 1.5k or so. 

 

I will say Senchez's 12's are even more awesome. But not many people are prepared to run such a large driver up front.

Do note I said midrange. Plenty of ways to do this, but I'd definitely be running a 3 or 4 way if I really needed output.