Welcome to the IHoP

[Godsmack 360]

Peas?

[Godsmack 360]

YAY!!!

[nem 2,019]

Duran you got a pm

I'll email you tomorrow Neal

Sounds good, I hope to have some good information for you.

Oh me too, I need something reliable.

I received nothing today. I will return to work Friday.

I'll be waiting

Did you send me an email? If so what time? I left at 6pm eastern time.

[nem 2,019]

The wife had the boy out driving and needless to say he scared the shit out of her. Guess I am going to be the teacher.

[KU40 173]

The wife had the boy out driving and needless to say he scared the shit out of her. Guess I am going to be the teacher.

Find some open country. Less things to run into

[nem 2,019]

The wife had the boy out driving and needless to say he scared the shit out of her. Guess I am going to be the teacher.

Find some open country. Less things to run into

Might take him up to our farm and let him have some fun. He drives fine there.

[///M5 2,833]

It my instance this was the higher performance/lighter of my options. Unfortunately my bike shop does not offer a wide array of selection (but they do offer plenty of help and are always friendly. I was interested in Trek bikes and they sold them and were very helpful in anything that I asked and I knew they'd have no problem offering assistance in the long run. So in this instance I may have paid for customer service more than quality product. I am perfectly fine with that because I feel I've made graver mistakes (AKA 4x6 and 6x9 Pioneer speakers in my original truck at some local shop w/o future help/knowledge for 2x what I could get them elsewhere).

I was never ripping your decision. You have a good bike, I am more attacking the general public and the manufacturers. If you buy a Trek there is only one that is made in steel and it is the 520, which is a great bike btw. The geometry is much better for most people although bike shops will push them onto something else instead. I am surprised a bit at your lbs, if you talk to any of the guys at all the ones I went to locally they will tell you that they all prefer steel. Literally every single sales person I spoke to has a steel bike themselves but all they sell are aluminum & carbon. Cracked me up. Of course, as a population I bet we have a few more serious riders here than elsewhere.

The hill country of Texas is where most rides are done. I hope that is considered not flat. But yes, where I am now, Beaumont, it is completely flat except for overpasses

I was just citing your comment earlier about being flat where you live. Either way, you personally would see absolutely no benefit in aluminum for those climbs. Unless of course you are counting tenths.

If you are comfortable on your frame, keep adding time in the saddle until you are not and then realize you'd still be if it were steel.

I literally lol'ed when I read this. It may be true but it still made me lol

I sort of smirked when typing it. There are a few reasons that ALL touring bikes are steel (or titanium which is similar in many ways and better of course in many).

Where is it easier to lose 500g, in your frame or in your gut? Really simple solution if you are a weight weenie, learn how to eat and exercise to maximize weight loss.

Point well taken

I didn't stress enough that performance on a bike is WAY more in the rider than the bike anyways.

[///M5 2,833]

"too many quotes, damn"

Sounds to me like you swallowed the marketing pill that has ruined most of the bike design firms. Aluminum is cheaper which is why it is made. Cheaper does not generally equal better.

This was not the point of my argument. I tried to approach it via performance aspects only, not relating it to cost, and I still feel my statement is generally un-flawed assuming neither frame will break under normal usage (with the rate that technology is improving and prices are reducing, if my frame does in fact break in 15 years I feel I could replace the frame with something superior for less money IF necessary)

It won't make it 15 years if you ride seriously. I've never seen an aluminum frame with 15,000mi on it. They all eventually break. The thing is that most people that buy them never ride them so it doesn't matter. Three schools of thought IMO when buying a bike. You are either paying for the component set, the frame or both. Personally I like to separate the too. Lots of people will tell you to get a good frame so you can add to it component wise in the future. I on the other hand will find the best deal. I can change either, it doesn't bother me. Both portions are resellable down the road if you get to a situation where you can. In my case the Lemond fits me pretty good, but the Ultegra set I could be happy with for years. Found a Poprad frame I might buy ($125) which would allow me a second set of wheels for when I want to go offroading. Of course, I may just build up another bike and sell my Mountain Bike anyways.

Carbon may be exciting, but for the recreational rider it is a joke. Spending $5-10k on a bike is stupid.

Most of the Madone series is less than 5K and has a full carbon fiber frame. But yes, more than 2K on a bike is stupid for the rec rider, bt I think CF is going to get cheap quick in the next decade.

For it to get cheap, it will have to either get made in huge quantities or get made overseas. Neither interest me. Same reason there aren't cheap Ti bikes is that the manufacturing is not easy and they fail at it in Asia. Ti is barely heavier than Carbon when done right and has nearly the same advantages with less disadvantages. It has also been around for years, but has not successfully made it into mainstream. Both because it is hard to manufacture and that the advantage to average Joe is zero. I don't think you'll see mainstream Carbon for a while. Not unless we have a steel or aluminum shortage. Do realize that the cost to Giant for an aluminum frame is probably around $5. (guess, but a good one) Why did I pick Giant? Well they manufacture pretty much everyone's bike including yours.

The flex argument I laugh at too. Sitting at a stop sign I can push and flex my Ultegra crank set.

Isn't the Utegra set made of aluminum??? : P I kid I kid.

Yes, it is. Forged though.

All this taken into account it still seems to me...

Aluminum = less weight and more performance

Steel - more comfort and longevity

However marginal each may be the above still holds true IMO

The thing is the performance and less weight is marginal, but the comfort and longevity is not. Exactly my argument. You will be NO faster and feel the minimal weight difference in the bike, but you will be way more comfortable and have a bike forever if it is steel.

[///M5 2,833]

Again, I will add in your price point for a new bike you did well. Not at all knocking your purchase. The only way you could have improved would be to buy used. Perhaps you could have saved $50 and bought a Giant, but I wouldn't split hairs over $50. The only advantage of the Giant is that since they manufacture everyone's bikes they can price their own slightly cheaper.

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

[MKader17 332]

Again, I will add in your price point for a new bike you did well. Not at all knocking your purchase. The only way you could have improved would be to buy used. Perhaps you could have saved $50 and bought a Giant, but I wouldn't split hairs over $50. The only advantage of the Giant is that since they manufacture everyone's bikes they can price their own slightly cheaper.

I wanted to buy used but because I had never been in the bike world I didn't know what to look for (as far as potential failures) so that's why I went used.

I did see this today, would this, by any chance, have been a good buy (second bike down) ? (My frame is 56cm as well)

[Penguin4x4 1,761]

alrighty new windows in my bedroom; hopefully I can sleep without a box fan running

[///M5 2,833]

Again, I will add in your price point for a new bike you did well. Not at all knocking your purchase. The only way you could have improved would be to buy used. Perhaps you could have saved $50 and bought a Giant, but I wouldn't split hairs over $50. The only advantage of the Giant is that since they manufacture everyone's bikes they can price their own slightly cheaper.

I wanted to buy used but because I had never been in the bike world I didn't know what to look for (as far as potential failures) so that's why I went used.

I did see this today, would this, by any chance, have been a good buy (second bike down) ? (My frame is 56cm as well)

Your frame is center to top, so your 56 is more like a 53-54 in an older bike. I ride a 64cm Trek and have a 61 Lemond.

That is also way overpriced. For $300 it would be a great bike. The components are old enough on it that even being Dura-ace I would be replacing them. In particular the down tube shifters can blow me. We have lots of rolling hills though so I am constantly shifting.

I am also confused as I thought the technium was Raleigh's terminology for their 6061 aluminum. The 753 tubing is good for touring, but isn't the lightest steel available. Basically it is 531 with some treatment. A bike with a 531 frame and replaceable components really shouldn't cost you more than 3 bills. Considering it is too big that doesn't matter.

**note, until 1 month ago I had never been on a rode bike but I have a ton of saddle time on a Mountain Bike**

[///M5 2,833]

Did the LBS you bought from actually do a fitting? If so, how extensive was it? Knowing your exact cockpit size really helps find older bikes that will fit you well. That was the hard part with me. I fit myself, but I don't see the value in dropping $200 for a fitting when I can get within 5% of where I need to be on my own.

[Duran 387]

The wife had the boy out driving and needless to say he scared the shit out of her. Guess I am going to be the teacher.

My mom taught me how to drive the first time on a country road, she let go of the steering wheel and told me not to kill her.

You have an email Neal.

[MKader17 332]

Team "Almost Frat" holding it down!

[nem 2,019]

The wife had the boy out driving and needless to say he scared the shit out of her. Guess I am going to be the teacher.

My mom taught me how to drive the first time on a country road, she let go of the steering wheel and told me not to kill her.

You have an email Neal.

I will get it tomorrow

The boy does well driving my truck and he helped me service the tranny, transfercase and change the fuel filter. Maybe he will be willing to help with the exhaust manifolds too. I may have to let him drive it more as a reward.

[Penguin4x4 1,761]

Indian outsourcing firm Radiant Info Systems has found yet another way to lower wages — hiring data entry clerks from a local prison. Some 200 inmates will be paid $2.20 a day to handle manual data entry tasks for Radiant's BPO deals in a pilot for the scheme. Radiant execs told The BBC that the deal will provide skills to inmates when they are released from prison.

[Penguin4x4 1,761]

washed the Hyundai and the big green monster; trimmed and caulked the new windows...unusually productive day...

[Penguin4x4 1,761]

alrighty new windows in my bedroom; hopefully I can sleep without a box fan running

so far, so good

[Godsmack 360]

Indian outsourcing firm Radiant Info Systems has found yet another way to lower wages — hiring data entry clerks from a local prison. Some 200 inmates will be paid $2.20 a day to handle manual data entry tasks for Radiant's BPO deals in a pilot for the scheme. Radiant execs told The BBC that the deal will provide skills to inmates when they are released from prison.

GREAT idea!!!!

Now let's see if AZ will start doing this with the illegals we catch.

J

[dem beats 1,223]

Sean, do you wear clip in bike shoes?

Riding a bike without REALLY sucks.

I would say that it's the #1 way to improve your biking.

This is assuming you're using the right tire for the job.

[///M5 2,833]

deadenhur

[dem beats 1,223]

Not happy about this rain.

You and me both!

3x ftmfl

It completely turned off my dash in the expy. Funny thing is.... it ride smoother and has less engine missfire problems. I still won't plug in my tuner untill I get this electrical problem fixed. I truely thought a properly sealed windsheild would stop the water from getting in.

[dem beats 1,223]

deadenhur

Yup