SQ 18's ?'s Bring EXP

[wheezit 0]

Not sure if that first three post rule really applies but here goes my first..

Just purchased new Acura tl and have the following dimensions to work with for an 18 of these subs:

Xcon

FI q

Fi btl n3, sq options

Havoc 18

rl-p

Firing towards hatch(20h x 32w x 32d)

Firing towards trunk (16h x 32w x 40d)

Can power with whatever amount needed, have some amps bsheeted ~1650, but can purchase new and probably will for SQ reasons. My plan is a smaller ported box tuned very low with plenty of port area that I can plug to make a large sealed with added blocks inside, possibly a horn or QW for competition in future. All boxes will be firing thru the rear middle hatch and sealed off as close as possible for cabin gain. Every one has been modeled in winisd pro with cabin gain and subsonics factored. Port velocity is staying under 16 with flare and excursion shouldn't reach more than 80% in any app. I'm really just looking for the answers that i can't model without more info or experience(which I have never heard any of these and don't have the money to find out sadly). If you have heard any of these subs and have opinions on which sounded better in different or similar apps I am all ears. I listen to everything from modern classical and techno to rap metallica beatles anything and everything. I am obviously going for best SQ possible and will do whatever enclosure needed to make happen. My conclusion at this point is that the FI q will be most accurate in all forms of music while the Xcon is very slightly behind but can noticeably beat in SPL app. Havoc was harder to determine because I dont have any information on magnet gap or bl linearity based on coil and inducatance. If anybody can shed light on these types of numbers and design properties please do but I'm prepared to go on opinion because I do know this group is the best and possibly only 18s that can pull off all 3 enclosures based on designs. The differences are minimal at best but some enclosures get very picky and magnify those differences so why not get the best.

And thanks for being here I did my reading and this is where all the knowledge is today. Ive been doing this for 8 years, been on every forum and this has the least retards. The one thing I can offer is help on all enclosures, youre welcome to pm me or I will probably reply to most anyways. Just help me decide which of these or any other recommended drivers u know of will be the best choice, money not considered

[///M5 2,833]

Not sure if that first three post rule really applies but here goes my first..

Just purchased new Acura tl and have the following dimensions to work with for an 18 of these subs:

Xcon

FI q

Fi btl n3, sq options

Havoc 18

rl-p

Firing towards hatch(20h x 32w x 32d)

Firing towards trunk (16h x 32w x 40d)

Can power with whatever amount needed, have some amps bsheeted ~1650, but can purchase new and probably will for SQ reasons. My plan is a smaller ported box tuned very low with plenty of port area that I can plug to make a large sealed with added blocks inside, possibly a horn or QW for competition in future. All boxes will be firing thru the rear middle hatch and sealed off as close as possible for cabin gain. Every one has been modeled in winisd pro with cabin gain and subsonics factored. Port velocity is staying under 16 with flare and excursion shouldn't reach more than 80% in any app. I'm really just looking for the answers that i can't model without more info or experience(which I have never heard any of these and don't have the money to find out sadly). If you have heard any of these subs and have opinions on which sounded better in different or similar apps I am all ears. I listen to everything from modern classical and techno to rap metallica beatles anything and everything. I am obviously going for best SQ possible and will do whatever enclosure needed to make happen. My conclusion at this point is that the FI q will be most accurate in all forms of music while the Xcon is very slightly behind but can noticeably beat in SPL app. Havoc was harder to determine because I dont have any information on magnet gap or bl linearity based on coil and inducatance. If anybody can shed light on these types of numbers and design properties please do but I'm prepared to go on opinion because I do know this group is the best and possibly only 18s that can pull off all 3 enclosures based on designs. The differences are minimal at best but some enclosures get very picky and magnify those differences so why not get the best.

And thanks for being here I did my reading and this is where all the knowledge is today. Ive been doing this for 8 years, been on every forum and this has the least retards. The one thing I can offer is help on all enclosures, youre welcome to pm me or I will probably reply to most anyways. Just help me decide which of these or any other recommended drivers u know of will be the best choice, money not considered

Not what your thread says.

Read the noob posting guidelines, you are butchering the terminology. On top of that if you understood what you are seeing in WinISD your questions are answered.

[95Honda 486]

It might be hard to get the right sized box in a TL for an 18. Just a thought...

Also, like M5 says, an 18" driver just for SQ? Maybe if you were going IB...

Also forget about a horn or T-line for an 18" with usable extension, they wouldn't fit in just about any car made...

Also if you are looking at purely Sq, I would add some of the newer XBl2 subs from DIY cable and the TC pro-18 (probably the lowest distortion 18 under about an 1" or so of throw) to the list. Again, you will need a huge box though and I don't think you realize what you are asking for....

[S.DeYoung 967]

Not sure if that first three post rule really applies but here goes my first..

Just purchased new Acura tl and have the following dimensions to work with for an 18 of these subs:

This is the farthest I read on your post. Good luck. If you want true sound quality why do you need a 18"?

[Julian 641]

It might be hard to get the right sized box in a TL for an 18. Just a thought...

Also, like M5 says, an 18" driver just for SQ? Maybe if you were going IB...

Also forget about a horn or T-line for an 18" with usable extension, they wouldn't fit in just about any car made...

Also if you are looking at purely Sq, I would add some of the newer XBl2 subs from DIY cable and the TC pro-18 (probably the lowest distortion 18 under about an 1" or so of throw) to the list. Again, you will need a huge box though and I don't think you realize what you are asking for....

Sir, I believe you're mistaken

Perfect thing for a horn for an 18" woofer!

[Adrian_D 520]

That's not a car though

[manrossdamn 57]

Fi BTL N3 for SQ?!

Are you out of your mind?

Lol.

There were a couple of threads regarding this issue.

N3 is aimed toward SPL, and the N2 is more "musical" if you will.

And building a box that's optimal for an 18" in the trunk of a TL is sort of hard, Shape of trunk is odd.

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

Welcome to SSA. Glad you found us. The BTL - N3 is an SPL driver, I think you might be thinking of the BTL N1, which is their SQ biased variant. First off, let's ask why you are stuck on an 18" sub in a mid-size sedan? The Xcon/Havoc/Q/RL-p etc. are all excellent drivers, but let's focus on your goals and such before we hammer down a driver choice.

[Julian 641]

Welcome to SSA. Glad you found us. The BTL - N3 is an SPL driver, I think you might be thinking of the BTL N1, which is their SQ biased variant. First off, let's ask why you are stuck on an 18" sub in a mid-size sedan? The Xcon/Havoc/Q/RL-p etc. are all excellent drivers, but let's focus on your goals and such before we hammer down a driver choice.

Agreed... subs are the last thing you look at in a TRUE SQ install.. Usually you won't even need a large subwoofer..

[wheezit 0]

sq doesnt mean im competing it just means ill be using the 18 in an sq oriented installation. Why not get loud if you can with the space available. I just get mad when people are loud but loose all consideration for how real instrumental music comes out of it. And yes horns for 15's have been done in 5cuft so 18 could be built in truck with 13-14 cuft to work with, through tapered design and double bass reflex. i already told m5 how i felt and how i must have been mistaken about this place. You think everyone with no posts is using the wrong terminology when really this forums terminology is too tight. No ""SQL""? i guess that means you better compete and be one extreme or the other. Yes its not a true scientific term but how do you describe an install like mine without it. I have to say SQ the next thing I know people are jumping on my ass because the 18's going to override the front stage in competition, no shit. I dont care what judges think of my car, i care what I think. The next thread I will make will be build then im out. You can hop on noobs all you want cus you cant distinguish or give someone the benefit of the doubt. All the drivers were sq oriented but the btl that i put the wrong number on which is a stupid system anyways. You can kill all three of mine if you want. I would have made one but then I would have gotten bitched at for posting in wrong thread. Can't win either way. Just let me ask this... When is the last time the moderators or senior members of this forum challenged the community or themselves to get better by tackling completely new things including theory, construction, or design process. What have you done to organize GOOD information and make it readily accessible other than scrolling through pissing wars in search. Ill be at cac

[Deto1992 5]

sq doesnt mean im competing it just means ill be using the 18 in an sq oriented installation. Why not get loud if you can with the space available. I just get mad when people are loud but loose all consideration for how real instrumental music comes out of it. And yes horns for 15's have been done in 5cuft so 18 could be built in truck with 13-14 cuft to work with, through tapered design and double bass reflex. i already told m5 how i felt and how i must have been mistaken about this place. You think everyone with no posts is using the wrong terminology when really this forums terminology is too tight. No """SQL"""? i guess that means you better compete and be one extreme or the other. Yes its not a true scientific term but how do you describe an install like mine without it. I have to say SQ the next thing I know people are jumping on my ass because the 18's going to override the front stage in competition, no shit. I dont care what judges think of my car, i care what I think. The next thread I will make will be build then im out. You can hop on noobs all you want cus you cant distinguish or give someone the benefit of the doubt. All the drivers were sq oriented but the btl that i put the wrong number on which is a stupid system anyways. You can kill all three of mine if you want. I would have made one but then I would have gotten bitched at for posting in wrong thread. Can't win either way. Just let me ask this... When is the last time the moderators or senior members of this forum challenged the community or themselves to get better by tackling completely new things including theory, construction, or design process. What have you done to organize GOOD information and make it readily accessible other than scrolling through pissing wars in search. Ill be at cac

Easy mann. Nobody here is trying to anger you. But, when you say you want an sq setup, the senior guys on the forum take that for what it is. Like i said, theyre not trying to hurt your feelings. Being loud while retaining some sound quality is different from sq. All the drivers you listed, witht the exception of the n3 have the ability get loud and sound great but, like any other system, majority is install dependent.

[morgan8119 0]

Someone once told me that you can't hear a difference b/w most woofers... Just enclosure and install, think about that.

[Julian 641]

Install is 1000000% of the sound.

[Sencheezy 689]

He's mad lawl

[Notorious97200 339]

This KC guy is hot !

I can't understand why he's set on an 18" woofer. But he has a good list of subs to choose from.

OP : if you're going for "SQ", what will you run for frontstage ? and for processing ? Maybe it can help people to help you !!!

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

sq doesnt mean im competing it just means ill be using the 18 in an sq oriented installation. Why not get loud if you can with the space available. I just get mad when people are loud but loose all consideration for how real instrumental music comes out of it. And yes horns for 15's have been done in 5cuft so 18 could be built in truck with 13-14 cuft to work with, through tapered design and double bass reflex. i already told m5 how i felt and how i must have been mistaken about this place. You think everyone with no posts is using the wrong terminology when really this forums terminology is too tight. No "SQL"? i guess that means you better compete and be one extreme or the other. Yes its not a true scientific term but how do you describe an install like mine without it. I have to say SQ the next thing I know people are jumping on my ass because the 18's going to override the front stage in competition, no shit. I dont care what judges think of my car, i care what I think. The next thread I will make will be build then im out. You can hop on noobs all you want cus you cant distinguish or give someone the benefit of the doubt. All the drivers were sq oriented but the btl that i put the wrong number on which is a stupid system anyways. You can kill all three of mine if you want. I would have made one but then I would have gotten bitched at for posting in wrong thread. Can't win either way. Just let me ask this... When is the last time the moderators or senior members of this forum challenged the community or themselves to get better by tackling completely new things including theory, construction, or design process. What have you done to organize GOOD information and make it readily accessible other than scrolling through pissing wars in search. Ill be at cac

Wow, you need to relax. Sean was saying to be more descriptive with your goals, and that we have taken the time to provide new member guidelines. These topics are in place to make questions or topics far more effective. In no way is anyone saying that anyone else needs to pick all out SQ or all out SPL. It is not about wrong terminology, it is about using a better narrative and not being trapped by generic terms that does not help the goal of the install. No one attacked you, only thing people did was try to get better background information to help contribute more effectively, and that is what is different about SSA, and why this place is far superior to most every other forum. If you took a moment to look around, of the member base, VERY few are actual competitors. Most everyone cares about great sound and performance in their car for their ears. I personally could not give two cents about what judges think, as I am against putting effort into anything that is subjectively judged when it comes to competition in anyway.

Next, if you had taken the time to look around, you would have seen that many of the senior members on here are on the staff or are considered senior members because THEY have tackled things such as complicated theory, construction and many different design processes. We have dedicated staff members for higher level questions and challenges, we have dedicated sections for technical and advanced topics. It is very well organized and very good information that is extremely accessible. There are not pissing wars here, you have the wrong site. If you think CACO is where you need to go, you have some serious questions to ask yourself. That site, the staff, the host, the lay out, and so on fails hard with a vengeance, anyone that has a clue in the audio forum world knows that it, along with a few others, sits at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to a quality forum that can be a resource.

Calm the hell down, get your goals and priorities in order. If not, go hang out on a site that is counterintuitive, not beneficial and filled with kiddies that have minimal experience.

[Dictator1992 6]

...18 in a trunk hard time fitting a 18 in a midsize wagon! two 12's would knock your socks off i betcha specially on some xcons!!!!!

[Sencheezy 689]

sq doesnt mean im competing it just means ill be using the 18 in an sq oriented installation. Why not get loud if you can with the space available. I just get mad when people are loud but loose all consideration for how real instrumental music comes out of it. And yes horns for 15's have been done in 5cuft so 18 could be built in truck with 13-14 cuft to work with, through tapered design and double bass reflex. i already told m5 how i felt and how i must have been mistaken about this place. You think everyone with no posts is using the wrong terminology when really this forums terminology is too tight. No ""SQL""? i guess that means you better compete and be one extreme or the other. Yes its not a true scientific term but how do you describe an install like mine without it. I have to say SQ the next thing I know people are jumping on my ass because the 18's going to override the front stage in competition, no shit. I dont care what judges think of my car, i care what I think. The next thread I will make will be build then im out. You can hop on noobs all you want cus you cant distinguish or give someone the benefit of the doubt. All the drivers were sq oriented but the btl that i put the wrong number on which is a stupid system anyways. You can kill all three of mine if you want. I would have made one but then I would have gotten bitched at for posting in wrong thread. Can't win either way. Just let me ask this... When is the last time the moderators or senior members of this forum challenged the community or themselves to get better by tackling completely new things including theory, construction, or design process. What have you done to organize GOOD information and make it readily accessible other than scrolling through pissing wars in search. Ill be at cac

Wow, you need to relax. Sean was saying to be more descriptive with your goals, and that we have taken the time to provide new member guidelines. These topics are in place to make questions or topics far more effective. In no way is anyone saying that anyone else needs to pick all out SQ or all out SPL. It is not about wrong terminology, it is about using a better narrative and not being trapped by generic terms that does not help the goal of the install. No one attacked you, only thing people did was try to get better background information to help contribute more effectively, and that is what is different about SSA, and why this place is far superior to most every other forum. If you took a moment to look around, of the member base, VERY few are actual competitors. Most everyone cares about great sound and performance in their car for their ears. I personally could not give two cents about what judges think, as I am against putting effort into anything that is subjectively judged when it comes to competition in anyway.

Next, if you had taken the time to look around, you would have seen that many of the senior members on here are on the staff or are considered senior members because THEY have tackled things such as complicated theory, construction and many different design processes. We have dedicated staff members for higher level questions and challenges, we have dedicated sections for technical and advanced topics. It is very well organized and very good information that is extremely accessible. There are not pissing wars here, you have the wrong site. If you think **** is where you need to go, you have some serious questions to ask yourself. That site, the staff, the host, the lay out, and so on fails hard with a vengeance, anyone that has a clue in the audio forum world knows that it, along with a few others, sits at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to a quality forum that can be a resource.

Calm the hell down, get your goals and priorities in order. If not, go hang out on a site that is counterintuitive, not beneficial and filled with kiddies that have minimal experience.

^^ This

[Duran 387]

I agree with Mr. denim, no need to be frustrated, suggestions made without knowing what exactly is needed is counterproductive.

On a side note, I can fit an 18" ported in my trunk

[95Honda 486]

And yes horns for 15's have been done in 5cuft so 18 could be built in truck with 13-14 cuft to work with, through tapered design and double bass reflex.

It is when things like this get posted that makes others believe you don't really know what you are asking. Don't take it the wrong way, but the terminology has nothing to do with this forum. You have some guys on here who have been at this a while. I've got over 20 years under my belt building loudspeakers, amplifiers etc.... We are here to help, don't get all bent out of shape. Think about what you are asking before you type and try and phrase your questions so you get objective answers...

[Hzd Skizzy 27]

Just because the 18 will fit doesn't mean that is the best option.

[eggyhustles 33]

What year tl? i had an 03 and you're def not getting an 18 in there. It was a tight fit for 2 12" ported xcons.

It'll be a tight fit in the 3rd gen, too.

Edited January 26, 2011 by eggyhustles