Difference

[16K 159]

hi ok right now i have my 2 hifonics brz2400's hooked up daisy chained... 1 set of rcas from the cd player to the input... then another set from the output to the input of the other amp... then same way with the remote...

now i know you can link/strap these amps together... i was wondering will it make a difference if i decide to strap them together instead of daisy chaining them... will it give it more power or just be the same ??

[ssh 924]

Im assuming the filters and gain are set equally.

Assuming yes, I don't see why there would be any difference audibly.

[ssh 924]

Also assuming your wiring config isn't changing.

[Sir-Lancelot 216]

I asked Mike Stiers about using the RCA out on my amps and he advised against it, said he would never use them personally.

FWIW

I would either strap them or use one amp per sub.

My 4 are strapped in pairs right now, but I think that was not the best way to go for lots of reasons. I will be putting one amp per sub in the very near future and I bet I gain by doing so.

[16K 159]

ya the amps gains are set equally..

and i already am running 1 sub per amp.... 1 ohm on each amp...

but alright ya i was sure it wouldnt be any louder... maybe just better sq...but idk i dont wanna go thru the hassle and then it sounds the same lol i think ill just leave it the way it is..

[shizzzon 461]

equal visual setting gains are not equally set.

When i had 6 amps in my car, i maxed the gain out on all of them and they ALL pulled a different amount of current... ranging from 135-165A +/- 2A.

[shizzzon 461]

I asked Mike Stiers about using the RCA out on my amps and he advised against it, said he would never use them personally.

FWIW

I would either strap them or use one amp per sub.

My 4 are strapped in pairs right now, but I think that was not the best way to go for lots of reasons. I will be putting one amp per sub in the very near future and I bet I gain by doing so.

i'm curious as to what theory or knowledge you are basing this decision off of.

I'd like to debate it.

[steveo50 3]

yea visually setting the amps the same may not workout for you. my boy had two of the same amps daisy chained on two subs. each were in their own sealed box and one blew one could still play. he was way over powering them.but still i would not do it.

[16K 159]

i know the correct way to tune the gains is with a DMM but what do i do exactly ??

[emh9009 199]

I would set one amp to a sub up and set the gain by ear first. Then take your DMM, set it to DC volts and plug the DMM probes to the speaker terminals and see what reading that gives you. Have the other amp hooked up to the other sub, then put the DMM probes into the speaker terminals and set the gain till' it's equal with the other amp's reading.

This could be wrong, but that's how i would do it. If the subs show any sign of stress, turn one down 'till it stops being over worked, check the voltage it's putting out and match the other to that voltage.

[altoncustomtech 773]

I would set one amp to a sub up and set the gain by ear first. Then take your DMM, set it to DC volts and plug the DMM probes to the speaker terminals and see what reading that gives you. Have the other amp hooked up to the other sub, then put the DMM probes into the speaker terminals and set the gain till' it's equal with the other amp's reading.

This could be wrong, but that's how i would do it. If the subs show any sign of stress, turn one down 'till it stops being over worked, check the voltage it's putting out and match the other to that voltage.

It's right, except for the DC volts part. Audio signals are AC.

[///M5 2,833]

i know the correct way to tune the gains is with a DMM but what do i do exactly ??

No. You shouldn't use a DMM to tune the amps. To check that they are matched or to match them sure, but definitely not to tune.

[ncacoates 104]

Dmm for gain matching yes. Scope is the only true way to set gain but even then music is dynamic and independence changes.

[Sir-Lancelot 216]

i'm curious as to what theory or knowledge you are basing this decision off of.

I'd like to debate it.

Sure, I welcome your input.

Currently I am wired like so,

2 dual 2ohm subs ran to 2 strapped amps x 2 . LOL lots a 2's there.

Lots of copper there too right? Got to keep in mind length of the voice coils that the power has to travel to and from being wired like this.

Got to be a better way. So.....................

I believe if I wire 1 sub to 1 amp using all 4 amp inputs (straight shot) and let the amp drop the load down, I would gain from this by eliminating the series/parallel wiring and reducing the length the current has to travel.

Thoughts?

[///M5 2,833]

Scope is the only true way to set gain but even then music is dynamic and independence changes.

No, it isn't. Generically it doesn't make sense to do either.

[sefugi 166]

I believe if I wire 1 sub to 1 amp using all 4 amp inputs (straight shot) and let the amp drop the load down, I would gain from this by eliminating the series/parallel wiring and reducing the length the current has to travel.

Thoughts?

Sounds like a reasonable thought, but would that make an audible difference??? Possible difference on a meter? Even with the elimination of the series/parallel, with good wiring of the subs ( I know you got that covered) would not make a difference. Curious of others input.

[///M5 2,833]

No way will it be audible. On top of that you are removing all of the "averaging" by doing that. Don't expect that your drivers are actually the "same'

[jonbearsmt 919]

[Sir-Lancelot 216]

Sounds like a reasonable thought, but would that make an audible difference??? Possible difference on a meter? Even with the elimination of the series/parallel, with good wiring of the subs ( I know you got that covered) would not make a difference. Curious of others input.

I agree it would not be audible. However I do make it to some shows where louder is better. Since my system is low tuned ground pounder, < that aint changing, I have to look at other areas for small gains. This was one thought.

No way will it be audible. On top of that you are removing all of the "averaging" by doing that. Don't expect that your drivers are actually the "same'

Can you dumb that down for me Sean? I don't follow.

[///M5 2,833]

If you have 2 "identical" drivers in 2 "identical" boxes they will still have different t/s. Could be your box, but definitely I have never seen any two drivers measure perfectly consistently. The better drivers from better manufacturers are closer, the cheaper and more chinese ones are worse. Your first step in averaging these differences is to use a single box for both drivers. Next is to have them share a load. It isn't always a positive, but more often than not it is. The goal is to get them all to respond the same. This does mean that the weakest link is the one you are using, but having the stronger links do more work isn't usually a benefit.

[shizzzon 461]

let me welcome a thought i have.

2 amps independent vs strapping.

Assuming they put out the same power either way....

Strapping has as interesting feature that many people don't think about.

Current. The more current that is requested, the larger the wire needs to be...

The more current that a speaker accepts, the closer the thermal threshold is...

At some point, it could melt the tinsel leads, coils, etc..

Look at what happens when comparing independent vs strapping-

Let's say we have 2 1000w amps.

1000w@1ohm or 2000w strapped at 2ohm.

Right off the bat.. Why is the minimum load when strapped change to 2ohm?

Because most amps, when strapped, are done in SERIES.

What happens when you series batteries?

The ONLY thing that happens is a doubling of voltage.. All current characteristics stay the same.

So how does this translate to amps?

Let me show you-

each 1000w independently does 33v, 33a = 999w.

So if you had 1 sub, 2 amps, one on each coil, it would accept 66A to achieve 2000w!

YIKES! That's not safe!

What if we strapped them?

Strapping would double voltage, but maintain same current output(theoretically, current will go up slightly, but not much!)

IE- 2000w @2ohm =

66v, 33A..

What?!!?!?!?

Yes, the same current in, but double the power!

This is my take on strapping is better, ONLY AND I MEAN ONLY if it helps reduce innefficiency from thermal threshold and longevity playback(anything but burps)

[Dictator 39]

Learning, Shiz seems very strong about his reason.

[///M5 2,833]

Huh?

Stop being so complicated. Not sure why you are trying to disprove Ohm's law.

Voltage = Sqrt ( Power/Impedance)

This will always hold true for any solitary coil. To keep it simple, just look at that coil.

When you apply Z watts to a coil of X impedance it will have Y volts.

Whether the coil sees power from one amp or two if the same overall Z watts are applied to that coil then the voltage will be the same. Considering the voltage is the same and the coil didn't change then at that coil the current is the same as well.

[Sir-Lancelot 216]

If you have 2 "identical" drivers in 2 "identical" boxes they will still have different t/s. Could be your box, but definitely I have never seen any two drivers measure perfectly consistently. The better drivers from better manufacturers are closer, the cheaper and more chinese ones are worse. Your first step in averaging these differences is to use a single box for both drivers. Next is to have them share a load. It isn't always a positive, but more often than not it is. The goal is to get them all to respond the same. This does mean that the weakest link is the one you are using, but having the stronger links do more work isn't usually a benefit.

Got Ya. Thanks.

let me welcome a thought i have.

2 amps independent vs strapping.

Assuming they put out the same power either way....

Strapping has as interesting feature that many people don't think about.

Current. The more current that is requested, the larger the wire needs to be...

The more current that a speaker accepts, the closer the thermal threshold is...

At some point, it could melt the tinsel leads, coils, etc..

Look at what happens when comparing independent vs strapping-

Let's say we have 2 1000w amps.

1000w@1ohm or 2000w strapped at 2ohm.

Right off the bat.. Why is the minimum load when strapped change to 2ohm?

Because most amps, when strapped, are done in SERIES.

What happens when you series batteries?

The ONLY thing that happens is a doubling of voltage.. All current characteristics stay the same.

So how does this translate to amps?

Let me show you-

each 1000w independently does 33v, 33a = 999w.

So if you had 1 sub, 2 amps, one on each coil, it would accept 66A to achieve 2000w!

YIKES! That's not safe!

What if we strapped them?

Strapping would double voltage, but maintain same current output(theoretically, current will go up slightly, but not much!)

IE- 2000w @2ohm =

66v, 33A..

What?!!?!?!?

Yes, the same current in, but double the power!

This is my take on strapping is better, ONLY AND I MEAN ONLY if it helps reduce innefficiency from thermal threshold and longevity playback(anything but burps)

Have you measured this or are you drinking agian? LOL

I see what your saying, but I don't know about all that.

Either way, I am going to test mine on the meter before and after as it will only cost me speaker wire and time.

[95Honda 486]

There are no positives to strapping amplifiers unless you have have a serious impedance problem (you can't get the load you desire).

Even then, when strapping, you loose effeciency, loose dampening, add an extra gain stage (distortion), etc.... It's a manufacture #s game really....

Ohm's law doesn't change, as mentioned. If you don't change the wiring config (impedance) of the drivers, everything stays the same at the same voltage drive...