Kenwood vs Pioneer SQ and Ease of Use/ SQ setup

[///M5 2,833]

I'd bet money what you call "tickling" is distortion.  You are over driving your speakers and amplifiers.

[liljestrand 244]

Just a comment on the bt connectivity. Mine connects to my note 2 in about 10 seconds.

[Trent Hari 1]

I'd bet money what you call "tickling" is distortion.  You are over driving your speakers and amplifiers.

Thanks for telling me.(the sub also does that if i turn it up with the windows down) I thought the tickling means hearing damage.

 i would not have guessed that was distortion. Overdriving the speakers? or the amplifier? which one is more likely?

The type Rs are the highest  power rated 6.5 (common) component speakers that i have seen at 110 rms. If I'm overdriving them now, i definitely will be if i bridge the amp.

 

 

Just a comment on the bt connectivity. Mine connects to my note 2 in about 10 seconds.

sweet:) i just got my Galaxy S4 today . the bluetooth issue might have been my old phone. ill see if my GS4 is faster connecting. 

[///M5 2,833]

Trent Hari, on 23 May 2013 - 01:33, said:

///M5, on 22 May 2013 - 21:59, said:

I'd bet money what you call "tickling" is distortion. You are over driving your speakers and amplifiers.

Thanks for telling me.(the sub also does that if i turn it up with the windows down) I thought the tickling means hearing damage.

i would not have guessed that was distortion. Overdriving the speakers? or the amplifier? which one is more likely?

The type Rs are the highest power rated 6.5 (common) component speakers that i have seen at 110 rms. If I'm overdriving them now, i definitely will be if i bridge the amp.

Couple misconceptions you have:

1) Hearing damage sure, but that happens at levels WAY below where you are. Damage occurs even below 80dB, but obviously gets worse beyond there.

2) SQ systems do not sound anywhere near as loud as poorly setup systems. Distortion is perceived volume. Another reason you probably won't like one.

3) We know your amplifier was WAY into clipping from other threads. When it clips it dumps a crapload of distortion into the signal which you perceive as an increase in output. Bridging the amp will not cause this to increase unless you drive the amplifier into clipping again. It should be easier to not with double the power.

4) Power ratings on speakers are useless. The 110w is a marketing ploy. Whether you give them 75w, 100w, 110w (unclipped) your ears won't hear the difference. Obviously shopping on that specification is absolutely useless.

5) Typically the easiest place to overdrive a set of components (that have properly designed crossovers) is in the midbass. This is very audible. It is also usually the fault of the install or at least can be significantly increased when installed properly.

6) Seriously throw out thinking about power specifications on anything, it will only mislead you.

7) You need setup help BADLY. Whatever shop you paid sucks donkey balls as they obviously didn't at all pay attention to any details First things first turn your amps down until the hiss is gone. Then lets work on improving the mounting for the mids and your box.

[Trent Hari 1]

Sounds like the first step im going to take is bridging the amp.

then ill see how I like it.

im not going to 110 watts, I have about 100 going to them now, and bridging them will double that to around 200

I would not bash the shop. Most people just put speakers in where the factory ones were and call it good. I didnt ask for anything more so I guess I cant blame them.

[///M5 2,833]

Bridging your amp will not give you 200w. It may give you the potential of 200, but that is a completely different scenario. You will now have enough power to hurt them though so listen carefully. The amp and speakers will only do what you tell them to.<br /><br />If the shop set the gains (which they should have) then they are worth bashing.

[Trent Hari 1]

The shop set the gains on the amp, but that was on the old Hu and im an idiot and messed with the deck gains., however when I had the type rs installed, he had both the mid and trebel on the hu on +4

ill have them recalibrate the amp when I have them bridge the amp.

When I bridge the amp, do i also bridge the front rcas? It seems to me that some songs have music or parts of music that only the rear channels play

[gprestonmoto 89]

When ripped correctly there is NO difference between a CD and USB.  Obviously they can both contain exactly the same digital information.  Most people really screw that up though and rip in craptastic settings.

 

Curious how you are hearing your time alignment woes.  Considering this is "all" that you need help with understanding what you hear would help us help you.

Hey man, not to threadjack, but I listen to music on my home system in FLAC and since I haven't found a headunit that will play FLAC, can you start and possibly pin a thread on the process of this. I don't use iTunes, I actually run RockBox that will play OGG and MP3's (yea I use Linux boo). Can you show us what ripping program you use and what settings to run? I can run in WINE so don't worry about it being Linux compatible. Just a good ripper and the best settings. Thanks bro.

[Trent Hari 1]

///M5

" 3) We know your amplifier was WAY into clipping from other threads. When it clips it dumps a crapload of distortion into the signal which you perceive as an increase in output. Bridging the amp will not cause this to increase unless you drive the amplifier into clipping again. It should be easier to not with double the power."

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Im interested in that concept of how distortion is percieved as greater output.

 

The speakers in my truck do go to almost unbearable amount of volume, but still no distortion that is recognizable to me, other than the problems i have mentioned before. Today i noticed something. on some songs , i can turn the volume up to max with no hissing, on others, i can only turn it up like 3/4  before the the hissing becomes audible (CD based and Bluetooth streaming with phone volume on max for both) - and the volume is comparable in both songs .

Also,I get the impression that bridging the amp will not help me get any louder, just clearer, is that correct?

 

A little more information on the topic of how distortion is heard as greater volume, and what I should listen for (distortion- wise)  would be helpful. 

[audio-neon 34]

///M5

" 3) We know your amplifier was WAY into clipping from other threads. When it clips it dumps a crapload of distortion into the signal which you perceive as an increase in output. Bridging the amp will not cause this to increase unless you drive the amplifier into clipping again. It should be easier to not with double the power."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Im interested in that concept of how distortion is percieved as greater output.

 

The speakers in my truck do go to almost unbearable amount of volume, but still no distortion that is recognizable to me, other than the problems i have mentioned before. Today i noticed something. on some songs , i can turn the volume up to max with no hissing, on others, i can only turn it up like 3/4  before the the hissing becomes audible (CD based and Bluetooth streaming with phone volume on max for both) - and the volume is comparable in both songs .

Also,I get the impression that bridging the amp will not help me get any louder, just clearer, is that correct?

 

A little more information on the topic of how distortion is heard as greater volume, and what I should listen for (distortion- wise)  would be helpful. 

Distortion is perceived as more volume because it is in essence more noise, just not the noise that you are trying to reproduce.  If you have ever had a set of noise cancelling headphones ( the ones that use white noise to cancel out sounds), that is what I think of when I am thinking of distortion.

 

So because we are hearing more noise, it is perceived as more volume because we are focusing on the sound we want to hear.  I generally listen for "static" or crackling.  If your gains are too high, you will hear this noise at minimal volumes.  Eventually when you turn your volume up enough on your head unit, you will again hear clipping, this is in the actual source of the audio.  This is because of (atleast my opinion) wattage ratings and marketing gimmicks.  Manufacturers sell head units knowing that at approximately 3/4 volume (different for each headunit/manufacturer) is the true "clean signal".

 

As for the tuner comment earlier in the thread.  It is true that most am/fm tuners suck on aftermarket radios.  They aren't much worse than the factory components, its the added amplification, which in turn amplifies the short-comings of the source.

 

Bridging the components could give you more headroom, but why not just run 1 channel per speaker ( 1 per mid range and 1 per tweeter per side)?  m5 will have more information when it comes to "active" set ups, but I  am curious if it would allow you more potential clean output.

[///M5 2,833]

Trent Hari, on 23 May 2013 - 17:31, said:

The speakers in my truck do go to almost unbearable amount of volume, but still no distortion that is recognizable to me

What do you think distortion sounds like? I suggest buying a set of tracks recorded normal, at 5%, 10%, 20%, 30% distortion. You'll be shocked. Sounds to me like you are well above the 20's regularly.

Trent Hari, on 23 May 2013 - 17:31, said:

Also,I get the impression that bridging the amp will not help me get any louder, just clearer, is that correct?

Actually might sound quieter although the music will actually be louder.

You keep referencing wanting an SQ setup, why such a big concern over output?

[Trent Hari 1]

I don't see what's wrong with wanting the music to be loud and clear. My speakers have the potential, so it would be nice to use that potential. And the look on people's face when they hear how loud the speakers go without having recognizable distortion is nearly priceless
And every time I mention wanting a true Sq setup, I get it shoved down my throat about how terrible my whole setup is, so I might as well get a little more volume if I can't have perfect Sq. So, I'll just work on getting rid of distortion for now.

however, my sub is hopeless for any kind of musical accuracy in the box I currently have it in., I haven't got the new box design from Quentin yet,(he's busy) so I can't start my box build- but that's another topic.

 

About those distortion tracks- could you post a link for a download of some samples that have different levels of distortion?

Edited May 24, 2013 by Trent Hari

[///M5 2,833]

You don't hear "clear" so why do you want it? Also not sure you are asking for more volume, what I hear is more perceived output. They are not the same.

This is exactly why I have been trying to get you to use expressive terms instead of buzz words that you don't comprehend completely.

Not sure if you can download tracks. Sheffield or another similar company had a set at one point though.

[Trent Hari 1]

Well ill bridge the amp and then ill see if i hear clearly I haven't heard the improvement in audio quality ill get from bridging yet so i don't know.

 

 I meant Loud and no distortion. obviously, they don't exactly hold hands. I kinda knew that, just not to what extent.

 

Possibly, I'm  using excessive volume to compensate for the lack of mid-range output.

[///M5 2,833]

Ah, a new detail.  What lack of midrange output?  ie, what are you missing?  Understanding what you think this is will help us help you.

[Trent Hari 1]

Well, I've mentioned multiple times in this thread about how the lower voices and light drum beats were a little weak compared to the bass and treble. And maybe the "fullness" of the sound was lacking. It's kinda hard to explain, like the volume of the voices maybe? When i turn the volume way up, the voices get  louder and i can hear more little details with the instruments., like, normally, it  feels like im listening to just speakers, but when i turn it up, it feels like im actually there.

i guess that's why i want so much volume.

sorry if that's confusing, im trying to be descriptive, but i don't know the terminology.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Trent Hari

[///M5 2,833]

Well, I've mentioned multiple times in this thread about how the lower voices and light drum beats were a little weak compared to the bass and treble. And maybe the "fullness" of the sound was lacking. It's kinda hard to explain, like the volume of the voices maybe? When i turn the volume way up, the voices get  louder and i can hear more little details with the instruments., like, normally, it  feels like im listening to just speakers, but when i turn it up, it feels like im actually there.

i guess that's why i want so much volume.

sorry if that's confusing, im trying to be descriptive, but i don't know the terminology.

You may have thought you've mentioned that, but it has always been embedded in something making it extremely hard to follow.  Even here you were doing great until you used the word fullness.  Curious on what part of the voice.  Is it only deep males, high pitched females, all the above?  Also be interested in what goes down when you turn it up?  Everything has a give take which means noting that will allow us to help you dial it in. 

 

Curious what you mean by drum beats too.  Big difference between a snare and a bass drum.  I also realize you may not be able to pick out the difference, but more of a description would be helpful.  Either way on the drums I wouldn't really try anything until you mount your driver on a baffle and use some MLV to separate the front and back wave coming from the mid.

[BigGuy 22]

^^^^^

 

And that is why I will be calling on M5, Swift, BigJon, Cheezy, Nems, Aaron and, Mark and a few others to help me build my system when the time is right.  

[Trent Hari 1]

The deeper voices and the mid- low parts of female voices are possibly a little weak

nothing really goes down when i turn it up im not sure what would

I don't know the names of the drums, whichever one doesn't have a lot of bass.

 

I don't know what MLV is or a "Baffle.

 

im sure ill see an improvement in multiple areas when i bridge the amp, ill just have to wait until i do so to see what im still missing.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Trent Hari

[gprestonmoto 89]

The deeper voices and the mid- low parts of female voices are possibly a little weak

nothing really goes down when i turn it up im not sure what would

I don't know the names of the drums, whichever one doesn't have a lot of bass.

 

I don't know what MLV is or a "Baffle.

 

im sure ill see an improvement in multiple areas when i bridge the amp, ill just have to wait until i do so to see what im still missing.

This is what drives people nuts...

 

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=what+is+MLV

 

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=what+is+a+speaker+baffle%3F

[Trent Hari 1]

sorry

[altoncustomtech 773]

Baffles and proper sound deadening are essential to getting the best possible response from any speaker in a car door.  CLD tiles (dynamat, second skin, etc.) are just a single part of the total sound deadening equation.  I would read up on the SoundDeadenerShowdown website if I were you, to help get a better understanding of what the product is, how it helps, and as a source for some of the best product a person can buy from one of the best vendors there is.

 

 

 

As for the baffle, it's easy enough to read up on what it is, but here's a couple of pictures to help show you.

 

 

I pulled this one randomly from the interwebz.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is how I did the ones in my Jimmy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They can be done a million different ways, but these are about the most simple way to fashion and install a baffle for the speakers to mount to.  I got mine out from behind the factory plastic panel because it affects the response of the speaker horribly.

[BigGuy 22]

I forgot to mention help from Alton too.  

[Trent Hari 1]

Thank you Alton. I really appreciate the extra effort and detail that you put into your posts.

I may wait until sometime in the future to go that extent. Right now I'm short on time and money, so I'll have to wait a while before I go that far.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Trent Hari

[altoncustomtech 773]

Certainly, that's why I said it can be done a million different ways.  The picture of the blue coned speaker and baffle would be one that fits behind the door panel without any issue.  I'll see if I can find some pictures showing the speaker and the baffle behind the factory grille for you to look at.