Kenwood vs Pioneer SQ and Ease of Use/ SQ setup

[///M5 2,833]

Build quality differences in head units is generally a concern from more than 10 years ago. Even crap these days can be decent.

If you want processing the Pio is the unit. Of course, having it a not using it makes it a bad reason to change to that headunit. There is also the fact that it has enough processing to make what you currently have sound way worse, but in the right hands will definitely be an improvement.

Not sure why you just want to buy something. No reason to improve anything if you have nothing to improve.

[Trent Hari 1]

Build quality differences in head units is generally a concern from more than 10 years ago. Even crap these days can be decent.

If you want processing the Pio is the unit. Of course, having it a not using it makes it a bad reason to change to that headunit. There is also the fact that it has enough processing to make what you currently have sound way worse, but in the right hands will definitely be an improvement.

Not sure why you just want to buy something. No reason to improve anything if you have nothing to improve.

Well the best common pioneer decks that i have seen in shops have really crappy feeling controls to them. that's why i went with the Kenwood to begin with. I like equipment that looks as good as it works. That and stores where i live don't stock awesome decks like the PRS-80 and 997.  the reason i want to switch is because i want to get the maximum potential out of my speakers, and what i have now cannot do that without time alignment , as one speaker is 12 inches from my head, while another is 4-5 feet away. 

Also this may sound dumb, but i want the best possible deck that i can reasonably afford if i am going to switch.

[S.DeYoung 967]

PRS>any other dsp head unit out there. If you want to save some money, look for a used 800 or 880.

[Notorious97200 339]

Keep your current deck. Forget that TA settings for now.

Work on the doors : make solid baffles for the speakers, improve the sound deadening. And tell us the results.

Rear speakers are useless. But it's hard to believe the first time. When you go to a concert or when you listen to a real hole stereo, the speakers are always in front of you. Don't forget that.

Good luck !

[Trent Hari 1]

Keep your current deck. Forget that TA settings for now.

Work on the doors : make solid baffles for the speakers, improve the sound deadening. And tell us the results.

Rear speakers are useless. But it's hard to believe the first time. When you go to a concert or when you listen to a real hole stereo, the speakers are always in front of you. Don't forget that.

Good luck !

Yes, I realize rears are worthless from a pure sq perspective, but rears , to me , make it seem as though i'm on the concert stage, rather than just in front of it.. - i spent awhile (like 1/2 hour) with the fader going from back to front to determine that that's the way i like it. - again this is just personal preference.

So - i sat in my truck for a while late last night and i was really listening to my system and

I finally found out why i was not satisfied with my SQ- the HPF on my deck was at 100 hz, while the sub amp was crossed over at 80 HZ (i never messed with the decks crossover before)

I was looking at my speaker amp and i couldn't figure out why it sounded off, because all of the crossovers were set at 75 hz HPF,

When i took that 100hz hpf off on the deck, i heard notes that i have never heard before - i'm so happy with my setup now. When i'm rich and just want the best, ill probably switch, but I can honestly say i have never heard music in my life as detailed and balanced as what my truck can produce now. - i might mention i sat in the center seat so the speakers were all the same distance away

I also discovered how awesomely detailed CD audio can be. I turned the volume all the way up and I could not hear even a tiny bit of distortion., and i heard every little thing.

I see what people mean when they say ignorance can be bliss- i had no idea what i was missing (or perhaps am still missing)

Edited May 20, 2013 by Trent Hari

[///M5 2,833]

Considering you adjusted only a 1/4 octave and your ear hears 1/3's you are being "sugar pill'd".  Removing the cascading filters will surely help as that is never a good idea unless you really need a brick wall in your response.

 

It does confirm one major thing though.  Before you spend a single dollar you need to seriously optimize what you have as it is far from ideal in it's installation and setup.

[audioarsonal 15]

 i did a quick walk through of the X997 unit. Here is the video

[Trent Hari 1]

Considering you adjusted only a 1/4 octave and your ear hears 1/3's you are being "sugar pill'd". Removing the cascading filters will surely help as that is never a good idea unless you really need a brick wall in your response.

It does confirm one major thing though. Before you spend a single dollar you need to seriously optimize what you have as it is far from ideal in it's installation and setup.

Yes, possibly. i think something may be a little off though because the speakers do not distort, but they can actually make the doors vibrate now and they did not do that before. maybe that's normal though. maybe I'm not an audiophile because i can't find anything wrong with the sq now. (other than maybe time alignment)

I think i am hooked on CD audio quality though. is there any way to get that clarity from regular usb music? its kinda a pain to switch cds all the time. a burned cd doesn't seem any better than usb to me. unless i'm full of crap and there's no noticeable difference.

Are original CDs the best for sq?

If my system is so good that the source distortion is worse than my equipment distortion, I think I'm doing pretty good

Edited May 20, 2013 by Trent Hari

[///M5 2,833]

When ripped correctly there is NO difference between a CD and USB.  Obviously they can both contain exactly the same digital information.  Most people really screw that up though and rip in craptastic settings.

 

Curious how you are hearing your time alignment woes.  Considering this is "all" that you need help with understanding what you hear would help us help you.

[Trent Hari 1]

When ripped correctly there is NO difference between a CD and USB.  Obviously they can both contain exactly the same digital information.  Most people really screw that up though and rip in craptastic settings.

 

Curious how you are hearing your time alignment woes.  Considering this is "all" that you need help with understanding what you hear would help us help you.

Alright I probably screwed the sound up when I ripped the CDs . I'll work on that- what settings do people 'screw up' when ripping? And how is music ripped 'correctly'

I realize that my setup is not perfect compared to what you would call perfect. But I draw the line at 'good enough clarity for me' with what I have.

I mention time alignment because it is something that would most likely be off , considering the speakers positions to where I sit, and I doubt it could hurt.

[///M5 2,833]

Alright I probably screwed the sound up when I ripped the CDs . I'll work on that- what settings do people 'screw up' when ripping? And how is music ripped 'correctly'

Rip them lossless and progressively with more compression. Have someone do a blind A/B listening test with your rips and see when it starts to bug you.

I realize that my setup is not perfect compared to what you would call perfect. But I draw the line at 'good enough clarity for me' with what I have.

I mention time alignment because it is something that would most likely be off , considering the speakers positions to where I sit, and I doubt it could hurt.

If you have "enough" then why do anything? If the setup is perfect then you cannot improve it.

You are confusing yourself on EVERY audio topic with the "I doubt it could hurt". It is time to start listening, comparing with other high end things and then describing what you are lacking.

[Trent Hari 1]

Alright so i did what you asked. when i was driving today, i hear a very slight hiss (from the tweeters mainly)  during the quiet portions of the song, when i have the volume at near max. - (with an original Journey cd- 'Ask The Lonely') - would this be the alternator noise? because i did not notice this the other night when i was listening with the engine off, and if it is the alternator noise, what methods can i use to correct it? The power wire is on the opposite side of the vehicle as the RCA's , so that "should" not be the issue. 

[tommydh 1]

I know Im late on this but as an 80PRS owner at first the set up is a pain, but once get hang of getting in and out of menus its  a good unit. However it may be me but the entire tuner blows I just  use my Ipod as fm tuner throug aux. Its hilarious how much better it works.

[Trent Hari 1]

I know Im late on this but as an 80PRS owner at first the set up is a pain, but once get hang of getting in and out of menus its a good unit. However it may be me but the entire tuner blows I just use my Ipod as fm tuner throug aux. Its hilarious how much better it works.

Thank you for the information. That is what i was asking for. Someone who actually owned the unit who had feedback.

If the tuner is that bad, you probably do not have the antennae hooked up to the radio, or the cable is severed somewhere if it is static that's bad..- , however the tuner sucks on my unit to use also its a very clunky setup.-but clear audio usually.

I have a question about the Bluetooth. Does it auto connect to your phone quickly after starting the vehicle?

my Kenwood takes awhile - (like 2-3 mins) to auto connect(and sometimes i have to do it manually)- and it seems to me that my old pioneer connected faster, if not almost instantly. Also, do the controls feel pretty solid? How is the overall quality of the unit?

I still have that question about the hissing noise my speakers make at high volume with no sound. it doesn't appear to be the alternator, as it still makes that sound with the engine off.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Trent Hari

[Trent Hari 1]

I  have that question about the hissing noise my speakers make at high volume with no sound. it doesn't appear to be the alternator, as it still makes that sound with the engine off. With a PDX-5 speaker amp and a KDC-896.

[Trent Hari 1]

Oops sorry I forgot to add My definition of SQ - I want it to be as loud as possible with No audible distortion (or as little as possible)  and 'Good or excellent" Musical Balance and clarity. (NOT SPL) for the speaker portion of my setup. -

If i wanted to get "staging and imaging" perfect, i would have to basically tear my truck apart. I already got ripped on for mentioning that. - i would have to learn Far too much, this is my first build, and its my daily driver.

[///M5 2,833]

Stop worrying about your definition and assuming what you will have to do and instead focus on what you want to improve.

The hiss is a reasonable start although from your description so far it sounds like thermal noise due to the gains being too high. Easy to tell, turn them down and see if it goes away. If not, plenty of other things cause noise, but an educated guess leads down this path.

[Trent Hari 1]

Stop worrying about your definition and assuming what you will have to do and instead focus on what you want to improve.

The hiss is a reasonable start although from your description so far it sounds like thermal noise due to the gains being too high. Easy to tell, turn them down and see if it goes away. If not, plenty of other things cause noise, but an educated guess leads down this path.

Actually I only put my definition there to stop being criticized by you telling me i don't know what i want. At least I tried. 

I have the mid gain on the hu on flat, and the tweet on -4. maybe the amp, but those are barely halfway up. 

 i can tell i'm on the ragged edge of the power that the amp can put out of two channels. - when i set it , i ran into clipping before speaker  based distortion.

However, if i bridge the back channels to the front, could i get the same volume or increase the volume, without whatever "thermal Noise" is?

[smashedz28 110]

I love my 80prs. One of the best head units I've used. I don't feel like I'm going to break it and has quite a bit of control

[Trent Hari 1]

I turned down the gains and the hiss went away.
If I bridge the amp to the front speakers, can I achieve greater output without that distortion?
Also, if i want to be REALLY picky, i guess the "Impact" of the mid range (drum beats and deeper voices) is a little weak, compared to the treble , (as i have to turn down the tweeters and sub to make the music balanced)
However, I read in reviews that Alpine Type R components (the 6.5" driver) can be a little weak in the mid range, unless they get a lot of power, but the tweeters are pretty powerful.

Edited May 22, 2013 by Trent Hari

[///M5 2,833]

Bridging will help. Your gains were too high. The impact you are looking fo is an install problem. Need a baffle and to separate the back wave from the front wave. New speakers will do less than fixing the install for that.

You are getting better in your descriptions

[ricksi30 923]

I turned down the gains and the hiss went away.

If I bridge the amp to the front speakers, can I achieve greater output without that distortion?

Also, if i want to be REALLY picky, i guess the "Impact" of the mid range (drum beats and deeper voices) is a little weak, compared to the treble , (as i have to turn down the tweeters and sub to make the music balanced)

However, I read in reviews that Alpine Type R components (the 6.5" driver) can be a little weak in the mid range, unless they get a lot of power, but the tweeters are pretty powerful.

Do the type r crossovers have tweeter attenuation?

[Trent Hari 1]

I turned down the gains and the hiss went away.

If I bridge the amp to the front speakers, can I achieve greater output without that distortion?

Also, if i want to be REALLY picky, i guess the "Impact" of the mid range (drum beats and deeper voices) is a little weak, compared to the treble , (as i have to turn down the tweeters and sub to make the music balanced)

However, I read in reviews that Alpine Type R components (the 6.5" driver) can be a little weak in the mid range, unless they get a lot of power, but the tweeters are pretty powerful.

Do the type r crossovers have tweeter attenuation?

Um they have adjustments i think like -4 db , -2db and flat, Im not sure as i had a shop install them. Im not sure what tweeter  Attenuation means

Bridging will help. Your gains were too high. The impact you are looking fo is an install problem. Need a baffle and to separate the back wave from the front wave. New speakers will do less than fixing the install for that.

You are getting better in your descriptions

Thank you I'm trying to be more descriptive. Thanks for trying to be more positive and helpful.

So Ill take a look at my doors. from my knowledge, i put dynamat on most, if not all of the exterior panel and a little on the interior panel.

 there doesn't seem to be another way for air to escape back  into the cab from behind the speaker, other than the speaker grill  although it is likely not is not airtight. (the plastic interior door panel doesn't have any other cutouts though)

I think the whole door is the "enslosure"

 

I saw those Second Skin Speaker Tweaker pads, would those help?

A description of a "Baffle" might help me understand what your thinking that i might need to do.

 

Btw i spent about an hour trying to bridge my amp today, its in a really tight spot, so its a pain in the A** to get to the wires, so ill probably just take it to the shop that installed it 

[ricksi30 923]

Set the tweeters to -4db and see if that is better.

[Trent Hari 1]

i already have treble on -4 in the headunit, it sounds fine, but i would like a little more impact and volume from the mids. Might be the "Fullness" of the music that people talk about.

Although, they do go so loud that my ears start tickling even with the sub-woofer off.

Im a believer now, two speakers do sound better than 4.. my mind just couldn't get around the fact that two is better than 4.

somehow, the music that is recorded with sound that comes from behind me, still sounds like it is coming from behind me. its awesome.

(I hate it when im proven wrong especially by myself) haha